Ali of the first Frazier fight VS. These Swarmers/Punchers

I don't know how much they can bench, but it doesn't matter anyway, so let me put it in a way that's relevant to boxing: whenever it will get to clinches, pushing or shoving, Fury will definitely come out on top of them.

Utter nonsense.
Tyson cleaned out the division in the 80s.
He beat: Trevor Berbick (WBC Champion), James 'Bonecrusher' Smith (WBA Champion), Pinklon Thomas (former WBC Champion), Tony Tucker (IBF Champion & Undefeated, 34-0 with 29 KO's), Tyrell Biggs (undefeated, 15-0 with 9 KO's), Larry Holmes (ATG, who was never knocked out until he met Tyson), Michael Spinks (Gold Medalist, Ring Champion, still considered the Lineal Champion & undefeated, 31-0 with 21 KO's), Tony Tubbs (former WBA champion, only had 1 loss by split decision to Tim Witherspoon), Frank Bruno (British Champion & #1 Contender), Donovan "Razor" Ruddock (top contender).
Tyson struggled in his comeback when he was no longer the same boxer and his skillset had degraded.
In his prime, he only had 1 bad night, in a fight for which he didn't even train properly.

Completely irrelevant.
Ali went through Hell against against Frazier and Norton while Foreman destroyed them.
Styles make fights and you're pretty dumb not to know that.

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: Moorer, Walcott, Charles and Louis.
All gave him huge trouble despite being past their best and despite not being a proper HW size wise.
Assuming they are in the same shape they were when Marciano faced them, Tyson knocks them out cold, all of them.

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: Holmes, Spinks, Holyfield, Lewis.
There are 2 major differences however:
1. 0nly 1 of those 4 men was past his best: Holmes.
2. Tyson was only at this best in 2 of those fights: vs Holmes and Spinks.
Spinks was a LHW, but he was undefeated when he faced Tyson and still in his prime.

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And despite that, Holmes went on to fight 2 more times for the world title (against Holyfield and McCall) and went the distance in both fights. In fact, he was close to winning it against McCall, even though he was 45/46 at that time. So Holmes was in way better shape vs Tyson than Louis was vs Marciano.

1. Neither faced a prime Tyson.
2. Both are far superior to anyone Marciano faced.

Stop embarrassing yourself.
Douglas was a top contender and a great boxer. Similar to Bowe, his main issue was his dedication to the sport. And he faced an unprepared Tyson.
The Douglas that faced Tyson mops the floor with Marciano.
And mentioning Williams is completely irrelevant, Tyson was completely shot when he faced him.
Crediting Williams for beating Tyson is like crediting Berbick for beating Ali,

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and Stan Harrington for beating Sugar Ray Robinson, Camavho for beating Sugar Ray Leonard, etc. It's ****ing worthless and irrelevant.

I've already explained that Holmes was still a good boxer when he faced Tyson. Not prime, but not shot either.
Holyfield had heart problems due to steroid abuse, but that was 3 years before facing Tyson. And the fights he lost was against Moorer (due to the aforementioned heart problems), and to Bowe, who is an ATG.

Marciano wouldn't beat ****, he wouldn't even be a contender in the 80s and 90s, he'd get his arse handed to him against every top boxer.

Circumstances do matter, and losses at the end of one's career when he was shot are irrelevant.
We are pitting boxers prime vs prime here, it won't be the version of Tyson that faced Williams that will show up here, it will be the prime 80s version, it makes a world of difference.

Tyson never did, he didn't need them, he was big from the get go.
What Tyson did use, and in huge quantities, was alcohol and drugs, both of which damage a fighter.

Maybe, maybe not. The 71 Ali will certainly have a very tough time against him.

Again, you show how clueless you are.
A beats B, B beats C, therefore A beats C - does not work in boxing, it's all about styles, and Tyson is all wrong for Ali.
And since you're clueless about this sport:
Liston was around 40 years old for the first Ali fight, barely trained and had a shoulder injury. Took a dive in the second.
Foreman punched himself out.

Frazier doesn't beat Tyson in a million years.
And Frazier also beat Ali while both were closest to their prime.
Ali resorted to cheating to win their 2nd fight and Frazier was blind in one eye and washed up by their 3rd.

And Tyson beat stronger guys than Ali, it's completely irrelevant.

Only in your delusional mind.

Stupid myths that aren't backed up by any factual evidence.

Again, only in your delusional mind.

Is that why he beat Smith, Tucker and Ruddock in 12 rounds ?!?

1. Tyson was not prepared for that fight.
2. Douglas was more fundamentally sound than Ali
3. Douglas hit harder.

And yet Ali said Tyson would have beaten him.

 

From the footage I've seen of Dempsey, he doesn't look that sophisticated to me. He was easily out boxed by Tunney twice.
Sure, you might argue he was past it, but still, it looks very bad when he barely wins 2-3 rounds in 2 fights, 20 rounds in total if I'm not mistaken.

 

Simple, cause circumstances matter.
Tyson was only KO'd once while he was in his physical prime, against Douglas, a fight for which he did not properly prepare, and during which he was pummeled all night long.
After prison, he was not the same boxer anymore. Add to that ring rust, as he had only fought a gran total of 8 rounds before he was stopped by a roided ATG in Holyfield.
And he was completely washed up when he came up against a 250 lbs ATG behemoth in Lewis, and even then he was pummeled all night until Lewis threw one Tyson didn't see coming.
He was even more washed up vs Williams.
In neither of those losses was he out cold.

As for Marciano, faced mostly weak, small and unskilled opponents. That is why he was never KOd. Put him against guys like Lewis and he doesn't make it past 5 rounds.

 

The same can be said about Tyson.
We are comparing a prime Tyson here vs a 71 Ali, not the washed up Tyson that faced Williams.

 

Ok, but who are those lesser men then ?!
Surely not Holyfield and Lewis, cause they are ATGs.

 

Douglas was not a lesser man.
He was a top contender, a boxer with solid fundamentals that had good size, reach and power. Just like Bowe, his main issue was his lack of dedication to the sport. As a quick example, he came in 15 lbs overweight for the Holyfield fight compared to what he weighed vs Tyson.
Both at their best, Douglas beats Marciano every single time, it ain't even close.

 

Not on Tysons best day. The only legit great Tyson ever beat was an old out of shape Holmes who was close to 38 yrs old lol