Ali Of The Williams Fight V Frazier Of FOTC?

Yea definitely

 

The quote is real enough. As Hugh McIlvanney wrote at the time it was "a confirmation of continuing pride rather than a logical analysis." Ali was both unexpectedly gracious in defeat and unsurprisingly reluctant to admit that he was in decline.

 

FOTC Frazier beats November, 1966 Ali.

Does that address the topic? lol.

As Ali stated in the clip, Frazier "whips me quicker" in referring to his pre-exile self fighting Frazier in answering the reporter's question. He was quite firm in his response.

It is in the last minute of the clip, why can't you find it?

 

Ali and honestly it would be relatively easy.. frazier and norton beating a prime ali is a false myth, ali 67 was one thing and ali 70s was another fighter 100% different and worse in everything

 

Not talking about Norton, bud. Don't cloud the issue.

We're talking about a relentless warrior in Frazier, far unlike anything else Ali had seen pre-exile.

Did any of those '60s stiffs bring the battle to Ali like Frazier did?

Ali couldn't steal moments of rests against the one guy that FORCED him to fight three full minutes a round.

Anyway, Ali himself readily admitted (before the revisionists and sycophants got to him) that his '71 version was "stronger and punched harder" than the pre-exile version and that Frazier would have "whipped me quicker".

I applaud Muhammad for his honesty at that moment. And I'll take his opinion on the matter over anyone else's if you don't mind, lol.

btw, lest someone attempts to obfuscate the issue and say I didn't like Muhammad, I have him right at the top with Louis as the ATG heavy. I respect the length of time he spent at or near the top.

But FOTC Frazier had the style, tools and determination to beat him H2H.

 

The Ali who fought Cleveland Williams stops FOTC Joe Frazier.

The FOTC Ali put Joe Frazier in the hospital and forced him to take a one-year layoff and Yank Durham admitted Frazier was so battered in that fight with Ali that he (Durham) matched Frazier like they were starting all over again, when Joe finally came back.

That's why Frazier fought such soft touches in 1972, in Daniels and Stander, after taking a year off. Durham was trying to protect Frazier, who suffered a beating in 1971 that he never fully recovered from.

The Ali from the Williams fight wins inside the distance and possibly damages Joe (long term) even more.

 

My thinking is that Ali's quicker feet helps Frazier last the distance, since Ali wouldn't have to engage as much and wouldn't land as many planted power punches as he did in FOTC.

But if they would engage early as they did in FOTC, yes, I think the chances are that he stops Frazier. Frazier couldn't be far from the brink as it was after the first five rds in FOTC since those were the rounds Ali dished out most of the heavy punishment. 1966 Ali, if he fought in the same manner, would perhaps be even busier in the opening rounds and land more and definitely be able to keep it up longer, so the question is if Joe wouldn't start to wilt after 7-8 rds and be finished off by Ali.

But, as I said, I don't think Ali would let Frazier engage him like that, and rather pepper him with somewhat lighter punches, with the occasional dust off, on his way to a decision. A cleaner and more emphatic version of what he did in 1974.

 

Ali stops FOTC Frazier, right?

Thanks for the laugh.

It must be computer day at the institution, lol.

 

Most Frazier fan boys, and most neutrals for that matter, think that Frazier never was the same after FOTC because of the punishment he took. It stands to reason that if he was so damaged in that fight that he also couldn't be very far from being stopped. Whether you agree or not it can't really be seen as a ludicrous assumption that if Ali did a bit better that he would be able to stop the guy he permanently damaged as it was.

 

And this all squares with Ali firmly stating that his FOTC version was stronger and punched harder than then his '60s version.

And it squares with Ali's admission that Frazier would have "whipped me quicker" in referring to his pre-exile self.

Yeah, right.

 

Dude I like your post, but just re-read the highlighted. That is the exact reason why no one has/has to make much of an argument for Frazier here.

 

Unfortunately, Cleve Williams shouldn't even be considered as a legit opponent in the "great fight" Ali analysis. Williams had survived being gut-shot by a cop's .357 Magnum pistol and had a partially paralyzed leg. 15-20 great heavyweights would have easily wiped Williams out that nite....probably by Liston in less than a minute. Ali was just being kind to Cleve and gave him a paycheck Cleve deserved.

 

Because Ali took heavy punishment? Joe did too. In fact he seemed to suffer worse effects from the fight, since it's a generally held opinion that it ended his prime.

So it was anything but a one-sided fight. For example, Tunney-Dempsey or Holy-Tyson were much more one-sided, but that doesn't stop many from claiming that the results would be reversed in prime for prime match-ups. So why wouldn't that apply to one of the most brutally hard-fought fights in HW-histotory?