Ali Of The Williams Fight V Frazier Of FOTC?

I don't care what Ali himself said on the matter. Fighters aren't the best gauges of things like that. There is no way it would be the same fight with the pre-exile Ali. Would still be a classic but Ali would not ship as much punishment. Close fight but Ali wins 8-6-1 or something similar.

 

this is like i see this fight

 

Because I highlighted a reason that fabricates the initial question and your argument, which I would consider very good evidence to favour Frazier in this scenario. Maybe I've had a laps in judgement because I felt like you came off very one sided and didn't respect that the opposing view point, is very much equal and balanced with yours, much like Ali and Frazier were

 

To be fair this one could come down to which fighter you like more.


More importantly when did the emojis get so ridiculous in this forum lol?

 

Still don't really understand. It was a brutal hard fought fight that Frazier got the better off, but it wouldn't take that much improvement for Ali to change the result. In fact he did so twice. Even with the lay-off, and being three years older and having more fights Ali still is 2-1 against Frazier.

So what you have to do here is first to write off the last two fights on account of Frazier being somehow more past prime, and then you have to believe that Ali was at his best after a long lay-off. Something no one believes about Dempsey, Louis, Tyson or Vitaly Klitschko.

To favor Ali in this scenario you basically only have to believe what you believe about all other fighters having long periods of inactivity, and what people at the time also believed about Ali - that he wasn't the same afterwards.

Now weigh these two paragraphs against each other and tell me that they carry the same weight.

 

A better question to ask is could any post exile version of Ali beat Joe Frazier on the night of the FOTC????

Would having a few more warm-up fights benefited him or was Joe in that condition too much for Ali at that stage of his career?

 

Taking 3 years off in your 20's won't ruin your career. So Ali was still in his prime. His fanboys are so in pleasuring themselves to him they make excuses for him. Frazier at his peak would always beat Ali. Norton at his peak would always beat Ali. Ali best win in his career came against Foreman because George took him lightly and NO Ali didn't lay on the ropes on purpose. Ali stated this in the 80's Foreman ability to cut off the ring forced him to the ropes according to Ali and one he tasted Foreman's glancing blows and felt his strength his only plan was he hoped he didn't get knocked out and maybe Foreman would slow down.

Ali beat a old Sonny Liston who beat wins were over 180 pound glass chin Patterson and slow as molasses Cleveland Williams. Who else did he beat before his 3 year layoff? Chuvalo who he struggled with? Brian London, Karl Mildenberger, Herny Cooper a 190 pounder who knocked him down and almost out with 1 punch, 200 year old Archie Moore, Zora Folley, Ernie Terrell. None of these people were world class fighter (besides Archie Moore in his prime but he wasn't in his prime and was a natural middleweight).

Just watching you people who don't know boxing repeat something you heard something on TV say and believe it. Ali was never as good as people make him out to be. Most people just feel sorry for him because of the brain damage he had. Never in his career did he get in the ring with a modern size heavyweight and just dominate to where you can look back and be in awe.

 

That's one balanced post if I've ever seen one.

 

That's an interesting question. I definitely hink he'd have a better chance a year or so later, but would it be enough.

One thing about that fight is that Ali got it wrong tactically. He was being too careless on the ropes and shipping unnecessary punsihment. If you compare FOTC and Manilla you'll see that they are very much alike, but with the major difference that Ali doesn't clown around when on the ropes in Manilla. In both fights the fight is in the balance after 10 rds, but in FOTC Ali gets caught while staying on the ropes with his hands low while in Manilla he starts to turn the tide in his favor.

 

Ali had to clown around as he didn't have enough in the tank to do anything else. Those body shots from Frazier were sickening and would have had a big effect on any version of Ali. I think the other two fights were more of a sign of Frazier deteriorating rather than Ali improving.

 

What I'm saying is that he didn't need to have his hands by his waist while on the ropes. In Manilla he probably spent even more times on the ropes but in a disciplined guard. That makes a big difference.

I think both had declined about the same since FOTC for Manilla, but Ali fought a more tactically disciplined fight than he did in 1971.

 

Wow. You do realize "modern" changes with time, right?

Ali fought ALL the "modern" sized heavyweights of his era.

Who were the "modern-sized" heavyweights of his era who Ali didn't beat that you wished you could "look back in awe" at how easily he dismantled that guy?

Are you saying Ali never beat anyone the size of THIS ERA's heavyweights?

He didn't because Ali didn't fight in THIS era.

Ali was a big heavyweight for his era. Every time he got in the ring with a heavyweight who was considered a "big man" at that time, Ali was the same size or bigger.

Saying he wasn't great because 40 YEARS later people are now bigger ... is dumb.

Because, guess what, the GREAT heavyweights today haven't faced anyone the size of the elite heavyweights 40 and 50 years FROM NOW.

The 2056 heavyweights and the 2066 heavyweights are likely going to make Povetkin and Wilder and Parker and probably even Joshua look like gawky teens.

And we're not talking about 1966 Ali vs. a heavyweight 50 years later in 2016. We're talking about 1966 Ali vs. 1971 Frazier.

 

Ali probably should've just dropped his hands and "shoulder-rolled" on the ropes against Frazier.

I'm sure he'd had done much better. (Just kidding. That was another thread.)

 

Lot of truth here, but I don't really think peak Norton always beats Ali.

It is funny how the Ali fanboys always point to the Williams fight and somehow translate it into an awesome, unbelievable Ali performance.

The truth is that Big Cat was just a sad shell of his former self that night. Plus Williams got his purse attached by Bud Adams in the dressing room before the fight....he really didn't even want to be out there.