Ali Or Leonard

I realize this post was made in 2009, but it really isnt the poster so much as the content I'm responding to.

I think there was a fair amount of debate regarding the Liston fights. I think when Joe was at his best, he beat Ali. In the second bout, Ali was warned for holding a countless number of times having been stung repeatedly by Frazier's left hook in FOTC. Prior to Thrilla in Manila, Frazier was considered washed up. George Foreman never got a rematch despite being the undefeated, favored champion in the Rumble in the Jungle. There's a seriously strong debate regarding the decisions in Ali's title defenses against Jimmy Young and Ken Norton (III); many felt the Ron Lyle fight was stopped prematurely.

I dont hold any of this against Ali personally, or doubt his greatness in any way. However, people will always pick and choose what they want to pry on and in other cases, turn the other way.

 

Leonard is overrated but might have a claim 2b a top 20 (I probably still overrate him myself) . Ali doesn't make my top 100 (and unlike every1 else here I actually have a top 100) , i probably overrate Ali as well , as many of Dundee's crimes will probably always remain unknown 2 me . Ali was a fraud , d biggest fraud ever . Leonard was a fraud 2 , as 1 should expect from a Dundee disciple , but as far as I currently know is d still more proven fighter .
Ali's loss 2 Frazier equates Leonard's "loss" 2 Duran .
Leonard was younger than Duran unlike Ali being 2 years older than Frazier , but Ali's loss was more decisive .
Leonard was a cleaner fighter and more dangerous despite it .

 

Out of sick curiousity what does your top 25 look like frank? :nut :good

 

:think

 

which is precisely why you dont see a Micheal Nunn-Ray Leonard bout. Never believed in his contrived comeback ruses. With Ali, his retirement was genuin. Leonard's wasn't.

And when he made his comeback he never gave us the matches we WANTED to see. he'd shine on the legit up N comers like Nunn that wouldve really tested his "potential". Instead, it was always Lalonde or some other guy we didnt care for.

So for me, leonard wasnt the real deal and is much farther down the list than Ali. Sugar did have the better guns; right cross, left hook, body shots, but he wasnt as tough as Ali and lacked Ali's chin

Ali is outside my top 10 while Leonard languishes somewhere in the mid 40s

 

Since there seem 2b some interest in my P4P list and as a reply 2 redrooster's (and every1's) overrating of Ali I edited and improved my P4P list again and here it is :
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9938244#post9938244
ppl ask about it like it was a well kept secret .

 

Preach it brother.

Leonard knew how to work the system, and he did it spectacularly.

 

Did i see the HWs list good, third Valuev??? Purrity 21st Good list:good

 

It's actually amazing and little bit sad that when I signed up here, I didn't have the highest opinion of Leonard, and he wasn't a particular favorite of mine although I respected his accomplishments. In a thread that called to list the 10 greatest fighters over the last 40 years I listed them by preference and he was 10th. A few months later, having seen the vitriol and myriad of excuses, he'd probably be listed 3rd at worst.