Ali overrated says Larry Holmes

Larry is awesome, but he looks comically bad when he 'dances'

 

Dont forget in the Rumble in the Jungle Ali was 32 and probably at the worst end of His career and George Foreman was a Brutal young bloke who was 25 and in His absolute Prime,you can talk about the Heat factor all you like but with the Big age difference George had a huge advantage.

We can assume all you like but Ali at his Absolute Prime was and always be the Best Heavyweight I have ever seen he had it all Speed,power absolute Class and probably one of the Best boxing brains I have ever seen.

Watch him in the Rumble in the Jungle where His Ropeadope tactics wore George down and in the severe heat,had nothing to do who handled the heat better Ali just went out there and put his body on the line and let Geore Pummel him till he had no more,can still remember the great Man saying to George as he layed on the ropes,"Is that all you got George" it was frustrating George and made him try harder to knock Ali out and in the end it was George's downfall and the only time in His great career he was TKOd.

You can say what you like but Ali and Foreman they were 2 of the all time Greats in the Heavyweight division and I remember well the Big fight in the Jungle and most boxing Gurus gave Ali at 32 against a Brutal Foreman at 25 no chance,the age was always going to be a Big factor and combined with the intense heat most thought it would go against the older fighter,and as history shows the were very very wrong.!!!!

 

:good

 

I agree with most of your post but ive just a little difference of opinion on one thing. People who havent seen the fight (not yourself) probably think ALI lay on the ropes for 8 rounds absorbing punches before KO'ing george. The fact he was ahead tells a somewhat different story. you do not get points by lying on the ropes taking punches:good

 

:good :good Truth. One of the myths that have spung up over the years. Notice how puffed up Foreman's face was,as early as the fifth.

 

Yep tend to agree,they were 2 Great Heavyweights something the division now badly needs.!!!!

 

ali certainly didn't just lie on the ropes for eight rounds. but did he deserve to be ahead on the cards?

 

Ali was a guy tht didn't care about sparring .
He took it lightly , and took many shots he didn't rly need to .
Larry sayin Ali is overrated , is partially true , but he pretty much forgets tht Ali was past prime .
U can say Holmes was faster, or did have 1 better jab ,
but then u forget the Marvel tht was Ali's prime.
i wud like 2 c Holmes takeon the PRIME Ali , in my opinion , he wud not win .

 

uh yea he did . m8, did u not c the CLEAN punches foreman was taking, thruout the whole fite?

foreman had aggression , and tht is it , he was not up on any reasonable score card .

 

Have a look at this Great footage of 2 Great Warriors Ali you can see he has a Game plan and Foreman just about spent from throwing punches,and Ali all the time asking George "Is that all you got George" wish there were fighters like these blokes in the Heavyweight division right now,I feel privileged to have witnessed one of the Great era's in Boxing.!!!!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALtuXNH22fA[/ame]

 

Yes. I believe Ali did deserve to be ahead on the cards. He was landing more often than Foreman was,even though George was throwing more leather. Look at both men's faces by the end of the fifth round. Ali's was virtually unmarked,while George's was sporting swellings.

 

fair enough. i think it was a pretty close fight to be honest, which made the knock-out all the more remarkable - it was one flurry too far for foreman, which completely vindicated ali's tactics.

i felt foreman was scoring a lot to the body, and that ali took a lot of punishment, even if his face wasn't showing it. i know the general perception is that foreman was missing a lot, and that ali deflected pretty much everything, but i watched it again recently and foreman landed a lot more than i remembered. but yeah, completely understand ali being ahead too.

 

When you look at the 2 Fighters in that Video Ali looks like the Young Fella and George looks like he is 32 year old,Great Fight and Ali did do a lot of Ropeadope tactics but Hit George with some Rippers also.!!!!

 

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I'll play Devil's advocate:

Future generations may look back on us, Ali's generation, and promptly flunk us.

Muhammad Ali, the greatest heavyweight ever, just because he proclaimed it ad nauseam to the high heavens?

Look at the guy:

Skinny, jumping around throwing flashy, powderpuff stuff as a young man and flicking harmless jabs, clinching, grabbing the back of the head and lying on the ropes as an old man to the breathless acclaim of his generation? Romantic fools.

There are such things as collective hypnosis and Chicago Cubs fans filling the sunny confines of Wrigley Field and emoting over the home team's foul balls, tobacco spits and other mighty exploits.

Sure, Ali knocked a lot of people out, but he was almost always the bigger man in his fights. He beat up little, ancient Archie Moore. Big deal. His stuff would be nothing against a David Tua, or Ike Ibeabuchi, or Vitali Klitschko, or other future behemoth.

Had Ali fought decades later, he might have been just another Chris Byrd or David Haye: pretty good, but, in the end, a footnote, universally unsung, unknown, unheralded.

Ali was just lucky to be bigger, faster, more athletic than his old-time peers.

He was strictly a headhunter and often a slapper! Can this be the greatest heavyweight ever?

Liston? Inconclusive. For whatever reasons, Liston quit both times and was never, ever, truly hurt by his floating foe.

Frazier? A little man who was never floored over 41 rounds by the Butterfly.

Foreman? Subpar in the African climate. Fought real foolish and totally punched himself out. The opportunistic Ali scored a quick-count knockout over a guy who would later be floored by the likes of Jimmy Young.

And, Cleveland Williams? Ali, at the zenith peak of his fabled powers, couldn't keep his bullet-wounded victim down. And the Cat ended the fight on his feet, scowling at the stoppage.

Larry Holmes was a more complete fighter: true power in both hands; a more complete repertoire than just a one-two; a faster, stronger jab; more economical and correct ring movement than jumping all over the place; though a much older champion, more title defenses than the Butterfly; clearly defeated Ken Norton, a man Ali never truly beat.

Perhaps Holmes is on to something?

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Prime! Beautiful post! I couldn't have analyzed it better....I totally agree with you.
To go on further, I think Norton's success against Ali was because he was the same size, pretty athletic, and PHYSICALLY STRONGER than Muhammed. He was just fast enough, skilled enough, and strong enough to give Ali a rough time. Holmes was better than Norton and I think he'd have handled Ali more easily. Big guys like Lewis and the Klitschkos would have excllent chances against Ali, too. Foreman was a big, strong powerhouse but he fought foolishly and was overconfident. A more mature, intelligent giant wouldn't make such a mistake.
By the way Prime, great photo....who IS that?

 

haha