Ali post Manila to 1978

Ali didn't duck Foreman. Foreman didn't have an official fight in 1975. (The Toronto exhibition was a joke.) George was off for more than a year (because his personal life was a mess) before he mounted a comeback in 1976. That year, Ken Norton was Ali's mandatory. So Ali fought him. After the fight, Ken Norton demanded a fourth fight - claiming he was robbed.

Ali said why should I fight Norton four times when I've only fought George Foreman once? Ali wanted to fight Foreman next. Norton was threatening to sue. Ali said Norton should fight Foreman, and the winner fight me, but Ali said Norton wouldn't ever fight Foreman again. (Which was true.)

And the whole thing became mute when Foreman lost to Jimmy Young and retired. At that point, Norton wanted a fourth fight with Ali and Young wanted a rematch, so Ali fought Shavers and Norton and Young fought each other in an eliminator.

George blew his rematch in 1977 when he lost and retired. Had he not retired, he may still have gotten an Ali fight. Foreman was the guy Ali wanted. That was the big-money fight. And Lyle had gotten a title shot after losing to Young, so it wasn't unprecedented.

But Foreman quit the ring.

 

Since when is a rematch given or not given on that basis?

 

What did Foreman do to deserve a rematch?

Their first fight was not close and Foreman showed nothing in terms of improvements to warrant a rematch.

Frankly speaking Foreman didnt deserve a rematch and had he got one, he would have gotten a bigger beating than he did the first time.

 

This :deal

 

What did Wepner, Coopman, Dunn and Evangelista do to deserve a title shot?

 

Foreman had his turn, they were next in line to get a loss from Ali

When you lose, its back to back of the queue.

And once Foreman went to the back of that queue, he never made his way to the front.

 

Quite frankly if people want to slag off Ali there are many varied, and more valid reasons to do so than a rematch with the chump Foreman. Ali ridiculed Foreman to the world on talk shows BEFORE the fight, impersonating a robot, and saying it was impossible for him to lose to garbage like that.

He then went on to PROVE in the ring that Foreman was in fact robotic garbage, and totally exposed, and humiliated him. Any rematch could only have been at a time, and under circumstances that suited ONLY Ali. Foreman deserved NO say in the matter.

 

Patterson got an immediate rematch after being KO'd by Johansson, and Ingo returned the favour, and then Floyd returned the favour again. Likewise, Floyd got an immediate rematch with Liston, and Ali granted Liston an immediate rematch after stopping him in six rounds.

Ali certainly agreed with that principle. After losing to Spinks, he went on national TV to plead with Leon to fight him again instead of Norton (who almost certainly would have beaten Leon), and hypocritically argued that the dethroned champion should have first dibs at a rematch!

Wepner and co were never in any queue, and most certainly were never ahead of Foreman in the pecking order.

 

I think Dubblechin already answered that point for you in the post above (which you seemed to have totally ignored).

Foreman lost, was knocked out, he was sent to the back of the queue.

He then did NOTHING to warrant a rematch, lost, cried about it and then retired.

Why should Danny Garcia give Amir Khan a rematch? he certainly doesnt deserve one.

 

Wepner, Dunn, Cooper, Evangelista and Spinks did NOTHING to warrant a title shot. Were they even ranked? They all got undeserved title shots, so why does Foreman have to deserve one when it's apparent that deservingness had nothing to do with it.

After Zaire Foreman went 5-0, 5 KOs, including of Frazier and Lyle. Foreman wanted the fight and campaigned for it constantly. It would have been a massive payday for both of them. Are you going to tell me that Jean Pierre Coopman, Richard Dunn (both of whom Ali faced in '76) and Evangelista (whom he faced in early '77) were bigger and worthier challengers?

 

He'd already beat Foreman, as a champion he was entitled to defend it against other people, or anyone that he wanted.

We're talking about Ali in '78, didnt Foreman retire in '77?

 

A champion, the good ones anyway, should defend against the best challengers, no?

 

Yes, but when hes already knocked him the **** out, he is entitled to move on. Which is what Ali did.

There was no unfinished business with Foreman.

 

Was there unfinished business with Joe Bugner then? Sure he's entitled to move on, but when moving on entails fighting a lot of journeymen challengers for lower purses, I wonder why he wouldn't just collect the bigger money (and bigger glory) by repeating what he regarded as his greatest victory, especially as it was apparently as good as a foregone conclusion anyway.

 

First, of course George Foreman was "more worthy" of a title fight than Coopman or Dunn. Of course.

But keep in mind that over a 12-month period from Oct. 74 to Oct. 75, Ali STOPPED Foreman, Lyle and Frazier.

Yes, Foreman was beating names like Lyle and Frazier in 1976 to reclaim his ranking, but Ali had already stopped those names Foreman was beating ... as well as Foreman himself.

In 1976, Ali fought two top contenders - Young and Norton - and two guys for easy paydays (Dunn and Coopman).

Ali didn't have to fight Dunn or Coopman. He only had to fight his mandatory (Norton). But he wanted to make a couple extra bucks.

He'd already beaten everyone, so no one saw any harm in it.

That same year (1976), Foreman came off more than a year's retirement and barely survived his first comeback fight against Ron Lyle. Nobody on the planet thought Foreman was ready for a title shot at that moment.

So Foreman continued his comeback. He beat Frazier that summer - a good win. At that point, Ali's fall schedule was set. He had to defend against Norton. Which he did.

After the Norton defense, Ali wanted Foreman next. Ali wasn't afraid of Foreman.

Here is Ali the day after the third Norton fight, regarding Foreman and Norton. (If you click on the image it'll get larger so you can read it.)

http://s27.postimg.org/aohs1sm7n/Page_1_Ali_Norton7.jpg

Unfortunately for Ali and Foreman, Foreman lost to Jimmy Young in his next fight and quit.

With Foreman gone, Ali wanted to fight Duane Bobick. But Ken Norton forced Bobick to fight in what amounted to an eliminator. So Ali signed to fight Evangelista in 1977 just to keep busy.

Your posts make it seem like Ali CHOSE Evangelista over FOREMAN.
That's not the case at all. Foreman was retired. And Norton was running around threatening, filing suits and blocking fights Ali was trying to make - claiming he (Norton) should fight Ali.