Ali provides a detailed analysis of his destruction of Cleveland Williams & others

well doug jones was not a bad fighter at the time he fought a young clay. he beat folley and bob foster just prior to that fight and had only lost on points in previous bouts.

 

Folley beat some contenders and lost to some others. That was why he was a contender and not a champ. Nothing strange about that. He was 34, but still in good shape and had the opportunity of his lifetime. A guy like that is no push-over.

That he had a bad loss afterwards is not really surprising. He knew his time was past and that he would never get a shot at the title again. Things can go down hill pretty fast in those circumstances when you're in your mid 30's.

 

Well I think that Foley would have been beaten pretty soundly by Louis,Marciano,Lewis and the Klitschko's today...I would not reallyy expect him to put up too much of a battle

 

True. And, once again, water is wet.

Who has at any time claimed that Folley was any more than a pretty good contender?

 

He was worthy but did anyone think he was impressive enough in any of those fights to beat Ali or maintain a title.....the division was not really strong at that time IMO...I mean in retrospect in what era do you think Terrell could have won a championship

 

I was responding to someone elses post

 

I agree that the division wasn't strong but if Terrell is a poor challenger it's only in hindsight (not forgetting he was a paper champ). At the time he was deemed the man most likely (if anyone, that is). In response to your question I think Terrell would have only been champ in an era of multiple titles. Like he was when Ali was stipped.

 

Ok. You had quoted me, so I assumed you were referring to me.

As for Ali's 60's opponents, it seemed the mid 60's were in a sort mid-period bewteen a pretty good division of contenders in the early 60's (Machen and prime versions of Williams and Folley) and that which came towards the end of the decade (Frazier, Quarry, Ellis and Bonavena). But he had some decent opposition in Cooper, Terrell, Chuvalo and Folley, along with the more standout opponents in Patterson and especially Liston. A solid cast all in all, and he dominated most of them.

It's not very different from Tyson's reign. He also cleaned out what was left of a good division in dominating fashion and had wins over Holmes and Spinks as icing on the cake.

 

He had 1 more fight after that, a points loss to Berbick in december 1981.

He didnt quit vs Holmes, Angelo Dundee stopped the fight.

 

Watching the footage of peak Muhammad Ali taking Cleveland Williams apart so systematically is beautiful and devastating at the same time.

Without a over drawn explanation, Muhammad Ali of the 60's was a far superior prizefighter than the one who notched up his signature wins in the 70s.

One only has to compare the film footage to know that.

 

And what ultimately separated Tyson and Ali was Muhammad's ability to clean out the division even after his exile.

 

Just rewatch the Williams fight and I see have a hard time seeing how people consider this fight as Ali's greatness fight. He had a cripple in there.

Sure Ali look good, and was impressive, but imo he was more impressive vs Terrell or London.

I mean Marciano look impressive in blasted out Matthews, Louis look impressive in blasted out Roper, Tyson look impressive in beating Fraizer.

But no one is going to used these wins to make a claim that they were the best ever on that fight.

 

Exactly. Williams is a mere punch bag. It's embarrassing that people continue to put this up as Ali's best performance. Like I said earlier, if a Frazier fan talked about how good Joe was and uploaded the Stander fight he'd be laughed out the place. "The Bum of The Month Tour 66" Boxing Illustrated called it. They were right. :yep

 

Or one can look at who he's fighting in that clip to realise how misleading it is. Williams didn't even beat a Top 30 rated fighter to receive a shot- he's nothing in there, and can bafely throw a decent punch. It shows what kind of shape he was in that he didn't even fight again for 18 months. The title chance was basically a personal favour to an unlcucky bloke who'd fallen on hard times.