Ali, the best heavyweight ever?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DFW, Oct 28, 2007.


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  1. DFW

    DFW Active Member Full Member

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    In having watched Ali throughout his career, I think he competes favorably with any heavyweight who ever laced on a pair of gloves. Especially the Ali of the mid 1960's. Can anyone think of which of the great heavyweight champions who might be able to win 3 out of 4 from Ali? I can't picture anyone dealing with the speed of hand and foot that was Ali's when he was a young boxer. And I am a big fan of many of the all-time greats-----Louis,Dempsey,Marciano,etc
     
    DFW, Oct 28, 2007
    DFW, Oct 28, 2007
    #1
  2. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This brings up the best/greatest argument once more.

    IMO Ali was the greatest fighter who fought his entire career over 175lbs. But the best would be a toss up between the Bowe who won the first Holyfield fight and the Lewis who beat Tua...
     
    TBooze, Oct 28, 2007
    TBooze, Oct 28, 2007
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  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think he was the best of them, you could take out the "?" for my money.

    I pick him to beat almost all of them, if you want the truth, though I feel Louis may have got him. But Louis could possibly lose to Tunney, Johnson, Liston...that is not the case with Ali.
     
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2007
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2007
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  4. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    possibly,given his resume he's definately worthy of consideration for it. I'd say top 2, i have him #2 behind Louuis
     
    dmt, Oct 28, 2007
    dmt, Oct 28, 2007
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  5. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    With Eddie Futch in his corner, Larry Holmes might be able to pull off a decision if he boxed very, very smartly, but the ifs would need to be in Larry's favor. Muhammad was the most physically gifted heavyweight in history, with only his hands as a glaring weakness.

    Compounding the case for Ali is how good he might have become had he remained classified 4-F for the draft, and remained active through 1968 and 1969. Joe Louis was not going to improve after the Godoy rematch, especially after Blackburn passed away. But Ali was still getting better when he was forced into exile.

    Winning three out of four? Against somebody with that combination of toughness, height, reach, hand and footspeed? As Ali would have been in 1968 and 1969? No way I would bet against him.
     
    Duodenum, Oct 28, 2007
    Duodenum, Oct 28, 2007
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  6. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I think Tunney is a bit too untested at HW to be picked over Louis, but fair enough he could beat him in a series of fights.... but what makes you think Johnson could take Louis ?
     
    ChrisPontius, Oct 28, 2007
    ChrisPontius, Oct 28, 2007
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Johnson is an awful style clash for Louis. Louis is a straight up boxer with a reasonabley orthodox style, he is a pretty easy decode. It's just that with such incredible punching he's going to kick the **** out of most of the guys he gets in with, decoded or not.

    The men Louis struggled with the most were the ultimate decoders who were themselves difficult to decode - Conn and Walcott. (I'd add that Conn's specific fight plan is what made him difficult to decode rather than his general style, unlike Walcott).

    You and I fundamentaly disagree concerning Johnson, I know. For me, Jack is about as smart as they come, impossible to frighten and really really good at not getting hit on the chin, despite the fact that he is not a runner. Johnson would be the last guy, literally, I would want to see in with Louis for these reasons.

    Tunney, it's a similair thing, he would do something similair to what Conn did BUT, he'd offer even less chances for violent exchanges, would spend even less time in Louis' kill range and wouldn't lose his head under any circumstances.
     
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2007
    McGrain, Oct 28, 2007
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  8. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Louis has quantity on his record, while Ali has more quality. If Ali was around during the 30's and 40's I'm pretty sure he could well have reigned as long as "The Brown Bomber". The era Louis fought in doesn't contain the same calibre of opponents like Liston, Frazier or Foreman.

    Louis' 11 year reign looks great on paper, but I would lean towards Ali having fought in a stronger era. I also believe Ali pulled out more significant wins outwith his prime years.

    1. Ali
    2. Louis
    3. Holmes
     
    Robbi, Oct 28, 2007
    Robbi, Oct 28, 2007
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  9. garymcfall

    garymcfall Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali is the greatest of all time, i dont know how you can justify putting anyone else in that place. Ali took on some of the best heavyweights who ever lived (Liston, Foreman, Frazier) plus some superb second tier fighters (Patterson, Norton, Quarry etc) and won. Sorry , people can say that Joe Louis was the greatest heavyweight of all time but he never PROVED that in the ring, he never once proved he could beat anyone the calibre of Frazier or Foreman or Sonny Liston. Ali did, the man has beat arguably 3 top 10 atg. In my mind he is clearly the greatest heavyweight of all.
     
    garymcfall, Oct 28, 2007
    garymcfall, Oct 28, 2007
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  10. ron u.k.

    ron u.k. Boxing Addict banned

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    i'm a big ali fan always was but nothing's etched in stone.i think louis and holmes have a good case for consideration but i just think overall ali's resume beats anyone's.i would also pick ali on head to head also with to me holmes having the best shot of beating him.
     
    ron u.k., Oct 28, 2007
    ron u.k., Oct 28, 2007
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  11. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Most people either have Ali at #1 or #2. Personally I plump for the later (Louis ahead, just).

    Anybody who places the guy outside the Top 3 is off the mark and/or a hater.
     
    Holmes' Jab, Oct 28, 2007
    Holmes' Jab, Oct 28, 2007
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  12. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

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    I agree.
     
    RDJ, Oct 28, 2007
    RDJ, Oct 28, 2007
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  13. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Let's see your Top HW 10 list. If you don't include him in the Top 3 (at least) then I'd like to see you provide an argument for not doing so.

    Cheers, Neil.
     
    Holmes' Jab, Oct 28, 2007
    Holmes' Jab, Oct 28, 2007
    #13
  14. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    Yup, I think he's the best heavyweight ever. Louis is number 2.
     
    brooklyn1550, Oct 28, 2007
    brooklyn1550, Oct 28, 2007
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  15. mightyd40

    mightyd40 Spartan Full Member

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    i cant see louis being before ali......ali fought and beat the best, thats good enough for me. louis is number 2 and would be possible for the top spot if his resume looked a little better.
     
    mightyd40, Oct 28, 2007
    mightyd40, Oct 28, 2007
    #15
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