Ali, the best heavyweight ever?

Out side of the knockdown, Two Ton Toney didnt relly look in control of his fight with Louis.

did Sonny Banks look in control of his fight with Ali base on his knockdown?? Toney may drop Ali at one moment, very low chance, but it could happen. If anything, I think Toney lasts longer vs Ali, than he did vs Louis.

 

Brilliant. When does your new book come out?

 

To be honest Louis never looked comfortable in that fight.

Galentos crouch puzled him.

His inside pressure bothered him.

Galento clocked him twice stagering him once and droping him the second time.

Now Ali might beat Galento on points but there would be nothing to suggest the fight was competitive.

 

Afterall that you never awnsered my question. But making a fair comparison with Ali's accomplishments and quality of oppostion to that of Tyson is beyond you.

Norton beat Ali once. Zora Folley wasn't hitting Ali at will with the right hand. "Cooper floored Ali and arguably would have won had the knockdown occured 20 seconds earlier". Well Cooper got a spanking and was stopped during the very next round. He lost, plain and simple. What about Liston and Foreman?. Showcase wins?.

You are unfair to put it mildly. For you to admire and appreciate Ali's career he would need to have fought KING KONG from his pro debut until he officially hung em' up.

 

Which brings us to the old circular greatness argument. Ali is great because he beat Foreman, who is great because he beat Frazier, who is great because he beat Ali.

 

Even worse than Ruiz?. Foreman wasn't technically the best. He held his hands low, and after he punched his positioning wasn't too great to defend himself. Other areas as well. I'd say he was sounder than Marciano when to came to the fundementals.

Foreman wasn't among the most skilled heavyweight champions ever, but far worse than him have been around.

"Foreman is the least skilled heavyweight champion ever". Again, unfair.

 

Primo Carnera was also not as skillful as Foreman.

 

I think Ali gets somewhat over-rated. I don't think his Liston wins should count for as much as they seem to, and neither do I think was his win again Foreman so much of a win, as a Foreman loss. Meaning he actually needed Foreman to cooperate with him for it to come about. Albeit, unwitingly. Having said that Ali's definately top 3 and in a h2h sense, I see only Holmes, and Lewis having a decent chance of beating him, although Tyson and Louis could possibily pull of upsets. So he's definately great, the greatest?? I'm just not sure. Certainly he gets a lot of extra credit for his outside ring activities and what he's done for the sport overall. Nothing wrong with that, but his antics outside the ring, while noble, shouldn't impact his standing inside the ring.

 

Joe Frazier disagrees.

 

This is a myth.
Here are the official scorecards:

Castellano: 3-3-1. He gave Floyd Rounds 1, 3, 4 with 5 even.
Mercante: 6-1. Poor card. He gave Floyd just the 2nd.
Gordon: 4-2-1. Gave Floyd rounds 1 & 5, with the 4th level.

Ali ahead at 2 and even on 1.

Your point is well taken though; Louis would probably take Patterson out within 3 rounds (if not 1), either version that Ali fought.

I think you are exaggarating Galento's succes a bit. It wasn't Galento's pressure that bothered Louis, he was simply caught by that unexpectedly fast leaping left hook; remember that Louis did not have the luxery of having a career DVD of his opponent's fights. He got caught with it in the first but gave as good as he got from the ropes and recovered.
Then in the third, Galento basically landed the perfect punch: full body leverage, came at a time when Louis couldn't possibly have seen it. Louis got up in no-time and wasn't hurt at all. After that, Galento took a hellacious beating. What was it, 60 stitches? It would look more sadistic than Lewis-Klitschko but you can't see it that well on the old film. Not all of that damage was done in the 4th by the way, he had already taken a fair share of punishment during the first three rounds.

It was a Lewis-Briggs sort of fight, where the challenger is very powerful and has a lot of handspeed but is limited outside of that. He manages to shake the champion early on but after three rounds he is completely outclassed and knocked out hard. Great, entertaining fights by the way. My favorites.

 

Come on dude, save that for your general forum forays.

 

Ali's the best ever, Louis is second, and the rest fight for the other positions, with guys like Lewis and Holmes being prominent. Marciano never lost, Foreman's got that amazing second effort etc.

 

And so he should. I stand corrected.

 

I was somewhat irritated earlier, sorry about that :blood

 

Hey no worries but HJab is a good one, how's your training coming along mate?

Your mention of Toney was interesting, personally i'm not sure if he would have the workrate there to nab a decision especially considering Bruno's decent jab, but he's a good shout and i could well be wrong. A good shout.