Ali - The Great Question

Although u r right and older Ali did have some advantages. Was prob a little stronger and had more tricks. The younger one had incredible stamina and speed to overcome that. Not to mention the fighters you named were high level pros that gave everyone trouble. I think he had all those fights easily won n the troubles get a little overblown though.

 

A definitive answer would have been given to us by a fight in or around late 1969 with Frazier, had Ali been permitted to continue.

I give 1965-67 Ali the benefit of the doubt that this was him at his highest ebb.

 

The thing is he would have presumably improved from 1967-1970 and we never got to see that.

 

Ur comparing men who just have Ali some trouble to men who beat him. Ali didn’t lose to those men. Now in the 70s he had trouble w a lot of fighters. Shavers, Lyle, Young, Bonavena, and others gave Ali a rough night. About the same as the others

 

Yeah people act like Bonavena was battling Ali punch for punch before he got knocked out by the most beautiful left hook Ali ever threw, but Oscar was down by 10 rounds on one scorecard and seven on another.

And Ali could have ripped Lyle to shreds anytime he wanted to, he was just screwing around.

 

1966/67 was the best version of Muhammad. Just as fast as the Cassius Clay of 1964 and was starting to show the ring generalship of his later years. 1972-74 was very definitely his best form of the seventies.

 

I agree w all u said. I just think he didn’t have any more trouble w 60s guys then he did 70s not counting men who beat him

 

Great question. I don't believe the 60's version was the best of Ali b/c of his youth. Relied on physical ability more than ring IQ. 70's Ali relied more on ring IQ and mental toughness than physical ability. I BELIEVE the years he was exiled would have been the best combination of both and IMO we never got to see it. I think the exiled Ali would've been a specimen we have never seen. But of course, it's all speculation but I think it's probably accurate.

 

I follow what Floyd Patterson and George Chuvalo unequivocally stated, that he was indeed superior in the 1960's, and those two were in the very best position to know.

 

I don’t agree that we never saw him at his best though. We would have seen more of him at his peak were it not for the exile, but he left us as a 25-year-old at 29-0-0 with what, eight or nine title defenses under his belt? I don’t think he was going to get any better.

 

If he had developed the ring IQ and mental and physical toughness (people IMO sometimes don’t acknowledge how tough a MF Ali was) that he showed in his best efforts of the 1970s during that three-year period of his exile where he still had his maximum physical skills … it would have been something to behold.