Ali vs Berbick

He looked better than he did against Holmes because that version of Holmes beats nearly any HW champion ever and Berbick wasn't even close to that level.

He got paid something like $8 million to fight Holmes. He couldn't have made anything near that to fight Berbick. There was no sane reason for him to still be fighting at that point.

 

Some will say this is blasphemy, but I actually think the fight was half-way decent. The fact that Ali didn't lose weight the wrong way (like he did against Holmes) gave him some strength and durability. Too bad he was using the diuretics against Holmes - the Berbick version of Ali wouldn't have taken as much punishment and would have probably survived to the last bell. (I don't believe Holmes carried Ali or "showed any mercy.")

 

We can say something ,Berbick wasn't a bum . Ali could have had a few easier fight s after Holmes ,im talking really soft touches . Whenever Ali by then could have still beaten anyone in the top 30 I don't know . But Berbick wasn't an ideal fight for him imo .

 

I believe Holmes did show him mercy. Watch the way Larry finished people around that time, with his classic measure-with-the-left-smash-with-the-right-until-the-opponent-is-standing-practically-comatose. He never once pulled that on Ali, and Ali was more than ready for that (six or seven times during the fight).

Larry could be a vicious, nasty finisher. We didn't see that against Ali for a reason imo. He loved the man, and couldn't stomach going for a knockout. Bless him for that...but it certainly didn't do Ali any favors (just the opposite; had Ali been stopped in the rightful eighth round he wouldn't have absorbed all he did after).

 

The nearly 40 year old 4lb short of 240lb Parkinson’s version of Ali that fought that night actually looked in better shape than some of these active 240 pounders today amazingly, and considering the disadvantages of age, the weight and the oncoming of the parkinsons it’s incredible he put up as good a show against a hungry future world champion as he did. It is a pity he used diuretics to lose weight for Holmes which drained him of power and energy as he would have put up a much better showing but obviously at that stage would still have lost convincingly to Holmes.

 

Then again, the uppercut and body shots he hit Ali with in the ninth round were as vicious as any he ever threw - ringside observers heard Ali scream with pain. After the fourth or fifth round, when Holmes went back to his corner, he told Giachetti that Ali had nothing left and didn't know what to do; Richie told him the most merciful thing to do was get him out of there. I'm guessing Larry probably went back and forth, not wanting to torture his mentor and idol - but maybe reached a point of "this has to end" ...

 

See, I didn't know that and am grateful for the schooling.

I still didn't see Larry doing what he typically did when finishing a fighter. He never went into that borderline-robotic right hand pummeling mode that he usually did. I remain convinced he held back...just enough to beat Ali soundly and not give him a chance to land.

 

I'm a little tired of reading what a crime everyone was involved in for the Holmes fight. Ali was a grown man and three-time champion who without question chose to be there. Dundee apparently thought he was good enough to fight, that in itself tells me a lot.

 

This was put really well imo.

 

Where does Dundee come into play here. Does he bare no responsibility? Isnt it his job to look out for his fighter instead of Holmes agonizing on how to finish it. BS on Dundees part

 

I think I mentioned earlier, Dundee apparently thought Ali was more than fit to fight Holmes. That tends to make me feel queasy whenever I read about what a victim Ali was in that fight (his responsibility) or how "everyone should have gone to jail" (I call B.S. on that in particular).

Yes, Ali was NOT anywhere even the guy who beat Shavers. But he was given the go ahead by easily one of the greatest trainers whom ever lived.

 

Angelo never had a say in whether or not Ali fought, or who, or did anything; he knew his role, and that was to train and ultimately protect his fighter. For better or worse (OK, worse), Ali took the fight for whatever reason he had. Dundee knew that if he wasn't there, nobody had the character or integrity to look out for Ali's well being if things went sour, and we saw that in the corner at the beginning of the 10th round - Bundini was telling Ali, "One more round!" and Angelo yelled at him and the ref, "No! I'm the chief second! It's over!" Ali's "friend" was more than content to let him head out and take more of a pointless, senseless beating. If Angelo wasn't there, we may have had a worse tragedy.

Ali MIGHT have listened to Herbert Muhammad and Bundini Brown if they said don't take the fight, but those leeches had no intention of letting another payday pass them by ...

 

Going back to the original post ... if Ali somehow got by Berbick (not impossible), if anyone sanctioned a fight with Weaver, they would have been endorsing manslaughter. Weaver was a fine man, but no idea how he would have treated a diminished Ali compared to Holmes ...