Ali vs Ellis..

Aside from his late 70's performances, his fight against Buster Mathis was his worst.

 

What?:huh Clearly one of his better post exile performances. Ellis was one of the slickest boxers Ali ever met, so sure he would miss some, but he controlled the fight, showed some lovely skills and wnet for the kill when the time came.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVwLlH7RmHQ&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL62FB521A245F2F68[/ame]

 

He was facing off against a trainer and opponent who knew him very well. For my money, his weakest nontitle win during the 1970s was probably Lubbers, and he was no ball of fire for 14 rounds against Bonavena either. How overweight was he for Ellis at 220? He scaled the same for Blin that December, and looked fine.

Jimmy was coming off a ten round UD over Chuvalo in Toronto. A few months later, George would follow Ali and Ellis into the Astrodome to post his final significant win over the Big Cat. As for Jimmy, he never again posted a noteworthy victory after Muhammad got through with him.

 

One of Ali's best wins simply because he won by a legitimate stoppage and without cheating as far as I currently know .
Ali's best wins r :
1) Bonavena
2) Lyle
3) Ellis
4) Patterson * 2

Ali looked unimpressive most of d fight simply because he was never that good 2 begin with .
Check out his fights vs Henry Cooper , Doug Jones & George Chuvalo , he looked even worse there

 

He looked worse against Buster Mathis, and maybe against Mac Foster, Rudi Lubbers and Jurgen Blin too.

Truth is, he didn't look much good in most of his 1970s fights. Post-Foreman he looked most awful.
Most of his 60s fights are a bit overrated too (or people haven't even seen them).

But there are enough fights where he did look very good and great even. And even when he looked bad he usually won.

 

It was his first fight back after losing to Joe Frazier. I consider that his timing improved as the rounds went on.

 

You definitely have a mini-obsession about the first Cooper and Jones fights,Frank.

 

Muhammad's best '70's wins were

Jerry Quarry 2
Ken Norton 2
Joe Frazier 2
George Foreman
Joe Frazier 3

 

because Ali didn't beat Jones and would have lost 2 Cooper badly if it wasn't 4 :
1) torn (& probably loaded) glove .
2) smelling salts
3) d break he got when he needed it due 2 d torn glove .
4) Cooper's tendency 2 swell anyway

It is only 1 of them if it wasn't due 2 cuts .

not really wins .

Not a win , made a thread about it . NC .

Due 2 swelling around Frazier's eyes , probably loaded gloves because very few throughout history cut /& swell so many men .

 

Loaded gloves in Manila ??

Your dislike of Ali's definitely got you embarking on ridiculous flights of fancy,Frank. No disrespect intended.

We've debated the Jones,Cooper and Foreman fights many times,and everything's been said.

What's your grouse with the Chuvlao fights ? I've a horrible feeling that you're going to dispute the validity of the decisions. :-( Any fair minded watcher of the 27 rounds that Muhammad and George C shared in the ring will no doubt tell you that Chuvalo won no more than 6 of them. As I do.

 

That Ali wore loaded gloves throughout his career is a very serious allegation, Frankenfrank. Not only about the honesty and integrity of Ali and his handlers but it also raises questions about the honesty & integrity and/or inefficiency & ineptness of the referee and other people in control of boxing at that time. In such cases, the bottomline is always PROOF. Do you have proof, Frank? If you don't have it, then you better stop posting such rubbish. Read what the better posters on this forum [I am not one of them] and other reliable sources have to say and learn about boxing.

Wish you all the best on your journey in quest of boxing knowledge!

 

Post Frazier 1st Ali did have something of a bored Roadshow Mentality, If Ali had fought many of these pre foreman opponents with the determination he fought Frazier They would of been no contest and Ali's KO Ratio would of been higher, of all his opponents -how many rounds ha he spared with Ellis ? he knew him inside out, Ellis was a very fast Puncher and its interesting to watch the 4th round when Ali drops his arms and Makes Ellis miss time and again, With Jimmy being a friend, it was really like a paid exhibition, they both got a decent payday and nobody got hurt. and the advertisers got enough slots to keep them happy.

 

What makes Manila different from his other fights ?

Like (what) ?

Maybe everything that I know , but I believe there is much more :good

As evident by Ali being hospitalized after their 1st fight (at least) and peeing blood (and Chuvalo staying clear) , d damage does not care in how many of d rounds it was inflicted , just like stoppages :good , same with Ali's current state compared 2 Chuvalo's , and Chuvalo's 5 years older and fought more or less d same opponents and did not enjoy Ali's size nor even young Ali's defensive style .

 

So, am I the only one who really enjoys this fight then?