Ali vs Frazier II

The fight is a snore. Uneventful, both listless. A real lack of passion on both parts. Frazier was hurt there... Notable.

Truly a forgettable fight.

 

"The main difference so far was Ali spoliing tactics. He clinched or held Frazier's arms, preventing him from working on the inside, and scored and moved when he was at a distance".

I think post-fight, some boxing analyst counted up the number of times Ali "clutched" or grabbed Frazier in the fight.
"Ali was a slight favorite to win,[3] and did by a unanimous decision albeit a controversial one, in which Ali clinched 133 times.[2][4][5]"

Tony Castellano (judge)
Ali, 7–4–1

Jack Gordon (judge)
Ali, 7–5–0

Tony Perez (referee)
Ali, 6–5–1

 

Frazier lost the early rounds in all their fights. He always would that is how their styles mesh. In SuperFight 2 Joe lacked some zip though Ali excessivley pulling his head down played a part perhaps.
Ali was in great shape. He moved more and didn't give Frazier the same opportunities to land that Dynamite. The holding by Ali does marr the action as far as comparing to the other two fights. Tony Perez the worst referee I have ever seen at the elite level is the only one that could fuk up an Ali/Frazier fight.
Ali won the fight.

I'm not sure how Ali hurting Joe one time in 12 rounds says anything about Joe's chin. Frazier's chin was top shelf. Ali admitted after the fight Frazier had "me out on my feet a couple of times". That is during the mildest fight they had.

 

To be honest, I think that's grounds for Disqualification.

Ridiculous.

Imagine Joshua or Fury doing that today, 133 times? They'd be crucified.

 

This was a weird and bizarrely boring fight to me, and I'm not entirely sure Ali won it.

That said, I think Joe gave everything when he fought Ali the first time (almost entirely out of focused revenge, and understandably so). Joe would be considered top 5 had he retired right after, on that night I think he would have beaten Tyson, Holmes, Louis, Foreman, Lewis...look at the look in his eyes in that first fight. No one could stop Joe on that day, and I would go as far to say Joe was the greatest Heavyweight whom ever lived that day. There's a reason that was called Fight of the Century.

Even Iron Mike (and believe me, my awe at the man in his heyday in terms of unbeatable savagery is growing every time I watch his prime) would have been worn down within six and kayo'd.

But Ali fought a ghost during II...I think there's a good reason Joe never fought Norton around that time. As much as I love Joe, Norton would have handily outpointed him.

Even the TIM, as amazing a fight as it was (I LOVE that fight) featured a Joe and Ali who were nowhere near who they were five years earlier.

All my useless opinion, but I believe this in my heart.

 

So forgettable that it is being written about and mentioned 46 years on...

 

I think it was memorable in its historicity. It just wasn't an entertaining fight imo, and by the time the bell rang ending the fight I had it a bored draw.

 

The big thing to remember with this fight was that there was a new sheriff in town and he was not taking prisoners. The way both Ali and Frazier looked they sure did not appear to be a huge threat to the young Foreman. That was the feeling after the ali-
frazier rematch was they were matched better against Norton than Foreman. that's how high the esteem was for George back then and everyone thought --especially after the norton destruction---there was a sizable gap between George and the rest of the contenders.

 

I think that's part of the incredible triumph of Ali's win over George. The way Frazier and Norton went out was literally terrifying, so everyone's attitude was probably justified.

Ali's brains and heart totally overmatched a guy who at the time seemed easily as unbeatable as Mike in his prime. I think he would have stopped Norton that night.

 

Frazier was in the wake of being destroyed by George. Ali held and held. IMO forgettable.
And, as much as I loved the fight, the 'Thrilla in Manilla' IMO was, simply, two past prime ATG's laying it all out on the table.
Again, IMO, many prime ATG heavies would have bested both of them that night.
My $0.02

 

I think that's all true, unfortunately about TIM too. That said, nothing can take away what those men did in their lifetimes, and nothing can take away Frazier's performance in the ring the first time against Ali. Nothing could have stopped Frazier that night imo.

 

Agreed!

 

Perez let Ali get away with murder with his holding, in Manilla the Padilla enforced the rules and Joe almost beat Ali to death

 

I think Ali was about to quit himself, not sure.