Ali vs. Frazier IV

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Saintpat, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,658
    6,291
    Jun 26, 2009
    In December of 1981, about a week apart, Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali fought as professionals for the last time.

    Joe ended a layoff of about 5 1/2 years to fight to a gift draw vs. Jumbo Cummings in Chicago.

    Ali came back a little more than a year after the Larry Holmes loss to drop a lethargic decision to Trevor Berbick in the Bahamas.

    Each scaled a career high in weight: 236 1/4 for Ali, 229 for Joe. That’s 12 pounds heavier for Ali and 14 for Joe from their meeting in Manila in 1975.

    Joe fought Foreman in an ill-fated rematch in 1976 and then retired before returning to face Jumbo. Ali fought on through late 1978 before retiring after winning the return bout with Leon Spinks, then came back for Holmes and again for Trevor.

    The results of their bouts against Cummings and Berbick left both with nowhere to go but back into retirement — there would be no market for either against other contenders or up-and-comers.

    But ... there would probably have been enough interest if they decided to get it on one more time in, say, mid-1982. Maybe in an exotic locale like Egypt or Japan or something like that.

    Should they have fought again? Absolutely not. They shouldn’t have even fought in late 1980 when they did, but the prevailing opinion at the time (and times change) seemed to be if that’s what they wanted to do, it was their lives and their risk and they shouldn’t have been prevented from fighting on if they chose to do so.

    So let’s say Arum or King or some upstart promoter was able to pull a big site fee, pay each $3-5M and make a fourth fight.

    What happens? How does it go?

    I just read Drama in the Bahamas, the book on Ali’s last fight, and it got me thinking about this. Both are depleted, but they probably respect and fear each other enough to get in the best possible shape for that stage of their lives if they do fight again.

    Bell rings for Round One. Take it from there.
     
  2. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,003
    4,661
    Apr 9, 2020
    If any of the old feelings were there, that would be the drive behind making it as good of a fight as it could possibly be. Still, at their age and physical conditions, it would be at best a sloppy slugfest. Not like the neat, scientific, and brutal trilogy they fought in the 70s. I would have 2 pick Joe 2 win, since his performance against Cummings was certainly better than Ali's performance against Berbick, though Berbick was a better fighter.
     
    Fergy likes this.
  3. Fergy

    Fergy Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,861
    7,599
    Jan 8, 2017
    Ten round fight? I'll agree with William and say Joe gets a decision. Ali had not that long since being pounded by Larry Holmes, he was probably still feeling the effects of that.
    The fight would be full of grabbing and clinches, coming from Ali mainly. Muhammad has one or two flashes of greatness, very brief lasting seconds.
    Frazier comes forward, of course, still after all this time wanting to hurt Ali.
    The end is in no doubt and all judges score it for The Smoke.
     
  4. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,410
    8,278
    Nov 21, 2009
    Sorry sadist, but there was NO interest. EVERYONE KNEW the were done long before. Only sickos think of these matchups. Sickos and newbys to the sport.
     
  5. sasto

    sasto Active Member Full Member

    1,009
    932
    Aug 5, 2020
    It's like the recent Tyson Jones except brutal and sad rather than nostalgic and a little iffy.
     
    WAR01 likes this.
  6. WAR01

    WAR01 In the 7.2% Full Member

    1,616
    1,362
    Aug 19, 2019
    God you’re obnoxious.
     
  7. WAR01

    WAR01 In the 7.2% Full Member

    1,616
    1,362
    Aug 19, 2019
    A friendly exhibition would’ve been a good send off for them both and would’ve paid excellently.
     
  8. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,168
    574
    Jul 17, 2009
    Going by their last performances,it would have been a very close bout. And also a sad and slow one. The winner ? Hard to call. Muhammad would be moving,jabbing and grabbing in slow motion. Joe would be coming forward also in slo mo. A split decision to either one would follow. Let's be grateful that it never happened.
     
  9. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,410
    8,278
    Nov 21, 2009
    AM I WRONG????
     
  10. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,903
    5,900
    Oct 4, 2016

    There would never have been anything friendly if Joe Frazier gets into the ring with Ali
     
  11. steve1990

    steve1990 Active Member Full Member

    822
    560
    Jul 7, 2012
    Both guys would be gassed by the mid rounds.
     
  12. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,168
    574
    Jul 17, 2009
    That would have depended on what mood Joe was in at the time. His views on Muhammad tended to fluctuate over the years.
     
  13. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,168
    574
    Jul 17, 2009
    A fourth fight between the two was discussed four or five years earlier than 1982. In 1977 Joe announced that he wanted to come back for a fourth fight with Muhammad. He also said that he did n't need a tune up in spite of him being inactive for a year. The idea was for the bout to be put on sometime in 1978. Ali seemed happy with this. If it had occured in this timeframe then it would n't have been nearly so obscene a spectacle as a 1982 fight would have been albeit a shadow of their first three fights. But Joe contracted hepatitis so was n't allowed to fight for a year.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  14. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,165
    7,067
    Jun 25, 2014
    That was a good book.
     
    Saintpat likes this.
  15. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,165
    7,067
    Jun 25, 2014
    At the time, Joe Frazier really hated Ali. And, at that time, Joe had more left than Ali did.

    It would probably resemble a much slower version - like played at half speed - of Tyson-Bonecrusher, with Ali playing Bonecrusher.

    But Joe lands more punches in every round on the constantly clinching Ali. Whether he stops Ali or not, I don't know. Berbick didn't even try to go for it against Ali and won most of the rounds. And Ali couldn't throw a punch without closing his eyes. He really had nothing at all left and was really showing signs of his disease.

    I mean, look at Frazier working with Marvis in 1982 and 1983, and look at interviews and appearances by Ali in that period, and there's no question Joe was much more well equipped at that stage.

    Joe wins. Glad it never happened.
     
    KidGalahad likes this.