Ali vs Frazier: Who would you have Cheered For?

Every political statement Ali made, all of which sounded like his ideas, came directly from the mouth of MalcomX. Every one.

Hence: puppet.


This is hard for some folks to accept, especially if they are black & lived in the 60's (and that's understandable) but it's well documented. It doesn't change the fact that Ali, by being that manipulated spokesman, did great things for the black community. - But none of it was his idea, and I'd bet good money he didn't actually give a crap, either. (MalcomX would never have called Frazier, or ANY black man, a gorilla.) Ali just enjoyed the spotlight.

 

you mean nation of islam, but to claim he didn't have an idea of his own is BS. fact of the matter is more blacks sided politically with what Ali was saying.

 

You don't spend 3 years in jail protesting a war because you "enjoy the spotlight."

And it's not well-documented because it wasn't true, the Nation of Islam was Ali's biggest influence, which was ideologically and practically at odds with Malcom X and in fact initially accused of assassinating him.

 

It's almost impossible to say. I'd have enough trouble transplanting myself into that era. Just an alien time period.

Funny enough, both are my 2nd favorite fighters of all time. I like both of them for different reasons, but at the end of the day for all their differences they were both Spartans of the ring.

*Edit*

I think in some ways if Frazier easily wins the poll nowadays it reflects my point. Only with time or hindsight would Ali not lead the poll. Ali was the fan-favorite of most people. He was the icon of that generation. Of course, Frazier had his fans. But more people saying they would've rooted for him if they around then is like saying more people would've tried to help slaves in the 19th century. We're a lot more distance from the culture and circumstance.

 

I respect Joe, especially how he helped out Ali financially when he was banned. However, Ali sacrificed a lot to stand up for what he believed in. People tend to forget that Ali was going through a rough time personally leading up to his fight with Joe and he took it out on him. That does excuse his actions but ****, we are all human.

 

I do not think the Nation pulled the trigger but I do not think their hands were completely clean.

 

Ali was accused of assasinating Malcolm X? How do you know?

Malcolm X defected from the NOI in the early 60s, he realized he was being brainwashed.

 

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised.

No no, the NOI was accused of assassinating X for the very reason you stated. Of course Ali himself also distanced himself over time.

Didn't a white majority back Frazier back in the day? Although I agree with your overall point about imagining ourselves in that time period is nearly impossible.

 

This.


Joe lent Ali money when he was banned and helped him get his boxing license back, how did Ali repay him, by being a ****.

 

Muhammad Ali.

Joe Frazier without Ali is just a guy who got the **** kicked out of him by Foreman twice. Take off Ali's name from his resume, he isn't even consideration as an ATG. Take Frazier off Ali's resume, and Ali still has the greatest HW resume of all time.

Say what you want about Ali's trash talk, Frazier would be nothing without Ali. Oh, and Frazier should thank his lucky stars he got Ali after his exile when his legs were gone, because he'd of never had the one win over him, even though he still got beat 2 out of 3.

 

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--> One of the reasons why you think Muhammad Ali was a much great fighter pre-exile is because of his performance against Cleveland Williams. "This is Muhammad Ali in his prime" you think to yourself. The fact of the matter is that Cleveland Williams was severely damaged by a gunshot which left him partially paralyzed in his left leg.

"Williams had been inactive the entire year of 1965 while recovering from gunshot wounds he suffered at the hands of a police officer arising out of a traffic stop. Boxing reporter Jerry Izenberg adds "...shot for no apparent reason." Williams was shot with a .357 Magnum in the abdomen, barely survived, and suffered permanent kidney damage, a loss of over ten feet of his small intestine, and nerve damage from the bullet which affected his left leg above the knee, causing it to atrophy as a result. "
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Williams[/url]

It isn't like Muhammad Ali stopped all his training while in exile, he still kept himself in shape so don't use that as an excuse. I will admit that he lost some skill but not alot.

If you are going to use the excuse of Ali being "out of prime" because of the exile, then what about the blindness that Joe Frazier had in his left eye. Why don't you account for that? Don't be biased.

--> Joe Frazier was to some extent robbed in his second fight against Ali. The referee was horrible and never deducted any points for Muhammad Ali constantly clinching behind the neck. There was also boxing politics at hand. Ali was much more popular than Frazier due to his bravery rejecting the Vietnam war draft. He already lost once to Frazier, so how could the judges make him lose again? It would make Ali look bad which was against the flow at the time.

--> The third fight was an amazing performance from both athletes. However, the deciding factor was the blindness in Joe's left eye. If Frazier had vision in his left eye he would have definitely won.

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To conclude, Joe Frazier won the first fight against Ali convincingly, a unanimous decision. The second fight was full of politics and bad refereeing, and the third fight was won by Ali because of the blindness in Frazier's left eye. If both fighters were in perfect health. This means that Frazier would have vision in both eyes and Ali would never have been exiled, the match up would have been even. To say otherwise, is biased.

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Ali's footwork was bad contrary to popular belief because the way he bounces around the ring is extremely inefficient and tiring on the legs, its just for show like the shuffle. If you want to learn real footwork go to Bernard Hopkins.

 

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Oh and I just figured out you're the same guy who started the thread "why don't they wear groin protectors in matches?"

Welcome to the ignore list.