Ali vs Holmes

Fighting Ali for Holmes was like fighting Louis for Marciano. He never wanted to do it. Holmes much rather would have fought Ali 4 years earlier when Ali was still a great fighter. Ali was a fool to come out of retirement and fight Larry.

 

You might mean like fighting Louis for Marciano, not the other way around.

 

Oh, my mistake.

 

Well I have a hard time saying Marciano Louis was like Ali Holmes though. Louis was not a corpse in that ring. He was still beating top contenders and was the number 1 contender for the fight with Rocky. Louis earn his rank. sure he jump into with Charles, but after that, he rebuild.

I not sure Ali would have beating the top ten of 1980 in his bout with Holmes. Ali was a Corpse. He had WAY less than what Louis had left. I take the Louis of 51 over Ali of 1980 easy.

 

Just thought i'd point it out, i knew what you meant but some might not pick it up, or have a go.

 

Yep, thanks I fixed it.

 

I've seen footage of Ali sparring with Marty Monroe prior to Ali's fight with Holmes. And Ali looked pathetic. How anybody in their right mind could think that Ali would have a shot at beating Holmes is beyond me.

I think for Ali it was a combination of age, inactivity, the thyroid medication, and the early effects of the Parkinson's. He had absolutely nothing against Holmes!

 

Like I said, I think he was a fool to challenge Holmes. Now, if he did in 1978 or something, he wouldn't be a fool, it would just be a bad idea.

 

I still favor Holmes pretty heavy in 1978. I think people are putting blinders on if people give Ali a shot vs Holmes in 78. Ali had just LOST to a 7-0 fighter. Ali was not as bad as 1980 of couse. But he was a few levels below Holmes by that point.

 

Agreed. I think the Muhammad Ali of Zaire or even Manilla would have been a good fight for a prime Larry Holmes. I would probably still favor Holmes to win - at least against the Ali of Manilla - but they would be competitive fights.

 

I think Holmes could have given Ali a run for his money in 76, and beat him in 77. Like Larry said in his book, he stopped being sparring partner for Ali because he was beating Ali at times, and Ali felt he needed to prove something, so Larry realized he wasn't learning anything any more, and all he was doing was being in fights that were supposed to be sparring.

 

A run for his money in 1976, Holmes would soundly have beaten Ali.

 

I'm making a copy as we speak...... Ali looks GREAT---for a snapshot session............ BUT! Losing 35 to 40 pounds in THREE months dating back to early July '80 to Oct. 2nd, Ali was a ghost of his former self...... Ali had no strength or power in his body at all...... He was a hoax....... SAD!!! meanwhile, Larry Holmes at 211 pounds was in his prime and kicking ass hard....... Mismatch............. I will claim as well, no proof, that Ali had a small / early form of Park's syndrome occurring in his life at this juncture....... NOTE: Ali was not diagnosed until '84..........
bbb:hey:shock:

MR.BILL

 

Hard to say, look how Mike cut thru Holmes himself like nothing.... Tyson heavily respected Larry at that time but still - as he should have done - gave him a sparkling as it was his time & not Larry`s, passing of the torch etc..... Im almost certain that Mike respected & loved Ali more than he did Holmes but its hard to imagine a peak Tyson sitting potshotting & carrying a sitting duck - even if it was the God of HW history.


Botswana :smoke

 

I think Tyson would have gone out there not quite in his usual fashion, but we would have started the first round strong because that was his approach. Maybe when he saw Ali had nothing he would have held back, being a student of the game and a fan of Ali, but I have to think that odds are he wouldn't and he'd look to be done as quickly as possible.

I feel all the damage was already there. Foreman, Frazier III and Shavers did the majority of it. Hell, Ali says something like that he can't remember anything from the Shavers fight after Shavers hit him in the second round. :-(

Furthermore, if you watch any out of the ring media appearances Ali was doing at that time, the physical degradation he was suffering was quite visible.

This is probably the stereotypical answer, but I don't think Ali could have beat Holmes cleanly after Manila. Up until then, I'd make him the favorite. Maybe just after Manila it would have been close, but I have trouble picturing the Ali who benefited from the judges against Norton and arguably Young taking Holmes. Only the fact that Holmes was still somewhat green at that point keeps it from being a certainty.