Ali vs. Holmes

When Holmes said " a couple of years before I fought him" that could be 1977 or 78. I can't see even the most devoted Ali 'pillowbiter' disputing that but '74 is pre Manila. Plus you have a greener Holmes.

 

Yep and Holmes would have given Ali hell as early as that, let's not forget Ali lost to Norton before 74.

 

74 Holmes would have lost to Norton, Frazier, Foreman and Ali in 74. The guy had 8-10 fights under his belt. Lets stay in the real world. He was still maturing physically. It would be unfair of anyone to expect them to do any better at that career stage.

 

Oh but a certain fighter who couldn't carry Holmes' jockstrap beat Ali and had less than 10 fights.

True Ali had deteriorated by then but Holmes was levels above Spinks.

 

What on earth has that got to do with an 8-10 fight Holmes fighting a 74 Ali? Deteriorated? Ali wasn't a patch on what he'd been in 74. Nobody is talking 78 Ali. Ali beat George Foreman at the end of 74 in one of histories greatest wins.

As for Spinks not carrying Larry's jockstrap, the 78 Spinks that beat Ali may well have beaten the 74 Holmes. It would be an intriguing match.

 

It's got to do with Holmes having the ability to give that version of Ali big problems.

Holmes would have boxed Spinks' head off at any stage!

 

Had no business in the ring fighting Holmes.

 

I thought he lost the Norton fight clearly, and Young probably beat him . Jones? no, and as far as Liston goes, Sonny did not throw the first fight, he simply was style wise overmatched and could never catch Clay at Sonny's age if ever. Second fight was fixed, Liston layed down instead of getting a long beating, even Ali knew it when he dropped . Ali is over all the greatest heavyweight in history, there are some fighters who would give him immense trouble but he could handle the beasts better than anyone else could. Not saying he could beat them all, nobody could, but he'd be the favorite.

 

The documentary on this fight was hard to watch, Ali had no business fighting at ALL!, much less the Easton Assassin near his prime. He was damaged goods.

 

Going into 74 Holmes had 7 fights under his belt. Three were scheduled 6 rounders and one was a 4. Even going into 75 his longest fight had been 7 rounds.

Spinks actually put on a good show in Ali 1 irregardless that Ali was crap.

Just admit you got it wrong and stick with 76 which would be a far better stance. Even at that point Holmes had very little behind him but could obviously fight and Ali was struggling badly.

 

That was in 78 after Ali was advised to retire for neurological reasons - after taking a lot of punishment in Frazier III, Norton II and against Shavers

Ali was vastly declined by 78 from his 74 form.

I can understand someone arguing PRIME Holmes could beat 74 Ali.

But, I would argue anyone arguing 74 Holmes could beat. 74 Ali is somewhat a dim bulb lacking logic. But, I digress..

 

You two like to get on the high horse without reading posts properly.

I never said Holmes would beat him, I said Holmes even at that stage would give him fits. You would have to favour Ali to take over in the later third of the 15 rounds but to suggest Ali would wipe the floor with him tells me you both know fcuk all about boxing.....

 

Hell will freeze over before Wass admits he's wrong. Lol.

 

You changed the goalposts. In your first post on the subject you said "could arguably beat. " Later, you changed it to "would give him fits. "

 

Yep, he would have a great shot at beating him. He had the speed and ability even in 74 to give him fits. I'm not sure how he would handle going 15 rounds back then but he proved on many occasion he had it all in the championship rounds.