Ali vs Norton 3

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SeanK, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. SeanK

    SeanK Member Full Member

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    What are your personal thoughts on who won the fight? Personally I have Ali winning.
    Here’s my line of thought.

    1. The fight was extremely close. I think that seeing this as a close win for either of them or a draw is reasonable. However...

    2. Norton’s corner is confirmed to have made the blunder of telling their fighter that he had the fight already won and just needed to survive the 15th, which allowed Ali to win the critical round.

    3. This is actually the only fight where one of them was champion and it was Ali. That means it’s more Norton’s job to convincingly win to justify taking the man’s title, just as it would be Ali’s job if Norton was champ. This means that if the fight is close, than Ali deserves the decision.

    What are your thoughts both on the fight itself and my reasoning?
     
  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I scored it for Kenny Norton. He was the agressor but he applied it smartly. His punches were cleaner and harder. Ali wasn't landing cleanly most of the fight. His jab was just a flick at this stage of his career.
    I think Norton outboxed Ali. He outboxed him coming forward.
     
  3. FastHands(beeb)

    FastHands(beeb) Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't think this fight was extremely close, a clear win for Norton, IMO. Judging by Norton & Ali's reaction at the final bell, they both thought so too.

    I completely disagree with your point 3; at the start of any fight, the score should be nil-nil, and be scored fairly thereafter. At what point does the challenger need to win "to justify taking the man's title" ? A one point lead? A two point lead? A ten point lead? Who decides this? I've always felt this is a flawed premise.
     
  4. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    One of the NY papers said:"If Ali won that fight last night at Yankee Stadium...then the Japanese won WWII"...Ali was winning fights like this because of who he was...not for what he was doing in the ting at this time...
     
  5. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    They didn't want to let him go
     
  6. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You're probably right...
     
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  7. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I had it a draw when I recently scored it, though I do agree that Norton looked the far better of the two. He gave away key rounds through clowning and inactivity when he very easily could have put the pedal to the metal and sealed the decision. His fault. In that way, he let Ali back into the fight and played right into his hands, proof Ali was indeed able to mentally get to him, though Norton always denied he ever did.

    I understand why Ken would feel hard done by with this decision, but really he has only himself to blame. He could have done a lot more that night.
     
  8. SeanK

    SeanK Member Full Member

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    Perhaps I’m wrong with this fight. As a side, what fight do you think he should’ve stopped at?
     
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  9. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You're not wrong. He has always been anti-Ali and anything that denigrates him he'll agree with. Pretty much scripted.
     
  10. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He did more than Ali....without Norton...there wouldn't have been a fight!!!
     
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  11. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't think you're wrong about point 3.

    If you go back and check, before 1976, for the most part the only time a heavyweight title had changed hands was by knockout.

    Braddock outpointed Baer. Charles outpointed Louis (when he came back). Both were fairly one-sided. That's about it.

    Every other time, a reigning heavyweight champion basically had to lose by knockout to have his title lifted. Or, in the other two cases, totally dominated.

    There were a lot of fights where a champion and challenger fought closely contested bouts, but the champ basically always go the nod. Ali-Norton III was no different.

    1978 was unique in that heavyweight titles changed hands three times via decision. And it became more commonplace after that.

    But when Ali and Norton fought in 1976, the history of the division was you kind of had to dominate to take a heavyweight title from a reigning champ. Or stop him.

    Norton knew that. Ali stopped Liston and Foreman to win the title. Foreman stopped Frazier. Frazier stopped Ellis. Liston stopped Patterson. Patterson and Johansson stopped each other. Marciano stopped Walcott. Walcott stopped Charles. And on and on.

    To beat Ali, Norton knew he likely had to totally dominate him or stop him. But he couldn't do either. People dismiss Ali and say he wasn't much at that point or all he had was a weak jab, but Ken Norton was a big, strong guy. And Ali was just as big and just as strong as Norton.
     
  12. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What was your score? Or did you just assume the other guy won?
     
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  13. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Norton fought his fight. The way he always fought. He did enough to lift the title. Ali was next to impossible to knockout. Kenny just used the same formula that worked so well in their first two fights.

    One thing that is/was cool about the Ali/Norton trilogy was that there was no ugliness between them. Even with Norton being a Marine etc. The controversial decision never affected to their friendship. They were genuinely friends. He never showed any resentment towards Ali.
     
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  14. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree. I'm not sure. but I believe it's pretty much the same strategy Norton used against Holmes...except Holmes had the age advantage.
     
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  15. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I had Norton winning by three points. This fight was kind of like Holmes against Truth Williams (though Holmes admittedly got knocked around more). Neither Holmes nor Ali looked like champions in those fights imo.