ali vs the greats prime for prime

Didn't you already get owned in the thread about Joe Frazier? Beat it, troll, you're out of your element.

 

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Louis couldn't do it. He had trouble with boxers and ali was the fastest overall. He'd have to deal with ali's movement (which in and of itself would make him dizzy) along with his swift combinations.

Also, most of louis punches would fall short as ali was a master of judging the distance between him and his opponent. And it's not like joe would knock him out if he landed a big shot because ali had a great chin and recouperative powers.

 

I think Ali is uniquely positioned stylistically to take on a vast majority of his peers on the ATG list.

It is this h2h edge over just about everybody that makes me put him at #1 all time, just a hair greater than Louis.

He combined the speed and swiftness of a pure boxer with the heart and chin of a slugger, with incredible footwork and a sterling jab to boot. Just a nightmare to deal with in most scenarios for most opponents.

I give massive heavyweights the best shot because we don't know how Ali faired against size, weight, and power in a package. Though, I'd still pick him-Fights against Terrell, Shavers, and Foreman give us a good idea that he'd find a way.

Edge, Ali. Against just about everyone.

 

Just breaking it down as trouble with boxers is a simplistic rock paper scissors argument.Yes a flat footed boxer puncher will have issues with movement. What about the stuff Joe can do that has proven to be effective against Ali. Like parrying and counterjabbing? Pressuring to the ropes(and you cannot sit on the ropes against Joe Louis if you want to stay awake. period), and drawing and feinting? What about Louis' combinations? Ali never fought a fighter with Joe's style. Ever. Joe might have had some issues with boxers but he has 2 wins over Conn, 1 over Sharkey and Henry Lewis, 2 wins over walcott(understandable if you think he lost the first), and 1 for 2 against Schmeling. You're saying he had trouble.Funny, because how many of those fights did he actually lose? Hm? Meanwhile Ali has plenty of so so decisions and losses against pressure fighters with less variety and skill in Norton, Frazier, Young, Spinks.... He was in his fair share of trouble against certain types too.

It's just not that simple.

 

I think Ali's feet and chin are the real ex-factors of that match. He'd hit Louis easier than Louis would hit him by quite a degree, and he is one of the few heavyweights in history that I think could handle some Louis blows and stay standing.

I'd love to see it, though. One of my biggest dream match ups.

 

Styles make fights and I can see Ali having trouble with a many of those guys. I think Ali handled the big slow guys but may pick up loses to Louis and Marciano, Ali was resilient and adapted pretty well but Louis and Marciano always improved the 2nd time around. Also I can see Charles being a problem and I would not count Dempsey out with his heavy hook.

When you are matching ATG's you can never tell who will win.

 

I would say that Lewis is generally thought of as a greater Heavweight than Johnson.

 

Johnson is smaller, slower, has a lower work rate, less physicaly strong, lighter and has a smaller reach.

Holding your hands high and leaning back might work if you against a guy who isnt as big as you. Against Ali its asking for trouble.

 

Jack Johnson is typically inside a top 5 or at least a top 7-10.

I have never heard the claim that Lewis is thought of as a greater heavyweight than Jack Johnson. How can you back up that?

 

Just have a search through top 10 lists on ESB.

You will find most people rank Lewis above Johnson for both greatness and H2H.

 

id give holmes and tyson the best chances of beating ali closely followed by louis and holyfield

 

If they are not credible though it doesn't matter.

Jack Johnson is greater than Lennox Lewis and that is not debatable as far as I'm concerned.

 

Johnson was quite physically strong. Never seen him even close to being outmuscled.

Johnson's glove blocking of Ali's straight punches would give the guy fits. Norton had a great deal of success with a simple block and counterjab and Johnson could do that and more. Probably the tops in that category of all time. He would also infight very well against ali, with his right uppercut.

Ali would probably outhustle him over 12 or 15 on workrate, size, and speed...But i'd say Johnson had the athletic ability and skillset to confuse a lot of Ali's game. More than a lot of heavies.

 

Most fans that have been prime viewers during 90's and 00's grossly overrate lennox Lewis...he was a very good fighter of his time and warrants much respect for the way he was as a champion....but Ali would beat lennox with consummate ease. Lewis did well when he could impose his size on largely mediocre or jaded opposition during his career. Ali at his best from '66 onwards would have won a hugely wide decision over Lewis and the Ali from 71 to 75 would do the same.

In terms of opposition, I feel Tyson would present the biggest challenge H2H, at his peak possessing immense speed, great power, excellent movement, and the kind of style which may trouble Ali. But I also have Ali winning this one. As for those who are dismissing jack johnson as having less ability than Lewis, they lack historical acumen of the sport.