Ali Vs Tyson

I thought the Folley fight was Ali doing pretty much as he wished,he usually took a couple of rounds to size an opponent up,his only 1rd ko was over Liston,Ali could probably have taken Folley out earlier,Zora was not the fighter he had been ,but in his prime he would have been stopped imo.

 

I agree with most of what you say, but not necessarily this part. I think Tyson was troubled by lateral movement, and both Biggs and Tucker showed this while they were actually moving. Biggs just moved in the first round (which I think he won), but then he just stood in front of Tyson with a ridicolously low guard (SRL comments on just how foolishly he fights and wonders why he doesn't stick to his gameplan). Tucker moved well for the first three rounds and won two of those, but then went into survival mode. I don't know why, Tucker himself said he hurt his right hand.

Douglas was the one who best stuck to this gameplan, and we all know how that panned out. So I don't think Tyson was untroubled by lateral movement. Very few, if any, of his opponents could keep that up for very long, though, so he just needed to be patient. Ali in his prime could keep it up for 15 rounds, so I think Tyson either would need to apply som real pressure, like Frazier and Norton did, or try to rely more on the counter, like Folley and Jones did. Tyson was really a better counter-puncher than swarmer IMO, but it's hard to counter such a quick guy that you give up so much reach too. That was why I give the stylistical edge to Ali.

 

...Which is why ultimately I don't see constant lateral movement working here either. You had to be prepared to get stuck in at some point with Tyson. I'm not sure anyone could use purely finesse and movement to beat him.
Obviously a certain amount of lateral movement could be used, it's just that I wouldn't build my gameplan around it.


Douglas? We're talking about a peak Tyson, no?

 

My point was that Ali would be able to use lateral movement for the whole fight. Tyson would catch him now and then, so he would have to ride out some tough weather, no doubt about that, but all in all I think Ali would be succesful with this tactic against Tyson.

I don't buy into the excuses for Tyson's loss to Douglas, by the way. Sure, he wasn't in peak condition or 100% motivated, but he was still in his prime and he got a good hiding. And it's not like he came in as a 10 lbs overweight slob. He was in decent shape, but just couldn't solve Douglas. I think the version of Douglas that Tyson faced that night would always give him big problems.

 

Very nice analysis, I particularly agree with the stuff in 'bold'. A case of the 'immovable object' against 'irresistible force'. I favour Ali on the scorecards but as you've highlighted it certainly wouldn't be a cakewalk.

 

Thanks - pure speculation of course.

 

I also tend to think a peak Liston would fare quite a bit better than what actually took place, still he'd likely drop a decision to the 60's version at least.

 

It wouldn't. There'd be a few hellish rounds for Ali and he'd need all his willpower to surivive. However, for me the winner is never in doubt, and I'm talking at least 9 out of 10 times here.

 

I actually think that Tyson might have more success against the 60's version (the full extent of Ali's durability at that stage of his career was never quite tested to the full). Just a thought.

 

I sometimes wonder how a prime razor sharp lean zora folley of the late 1950s would have done vs muhammad ali

 

Ali would just have to move around and avoid the dangerous punches till about the seventh. Then he would take Tyson apart for an easy decison win. But Ali must make sure he is wearing his Ear protectors at all time's!

 

I do too. But he'd still lose against the 1967 model.

 

Thanks for this effort. I happen to see things oppositely. I think Ali will come out and try and succeed in establishing control, exactly with lateral movement and the jab. It seems to me Tyson was a come-forward attacker who was briefly thwarted when Holmes and even Spinks moved stealthily to the side. He was at his best with the guy in front of him.

I see Ali taking the early rounds, especially based on his great lateral proficiency, overall speed, longer reach, clinching ability and chin-and-body durability. All the while, he will punish Tyson's face and I see damage here as a factor, similar to what happened to Liston in Round 3.

I can't see Tyson getting the better of Ali early on, and we all know what happens when Tyson is not having his way. I see him soldiering on in disciplined fashion, having his moments of terror, but eventually outclassed by a guy who, as befits the Greatest, had all the tools.