Ali watches Liston stop Patterson

Sonny took care of business but Floyd never showed up.

Two easiest fights Sonny ever had in his entire career. Makes no sense.

 

If Floyd never showed up as you are always so eager to pronounce then that's to Liston's credit regardless. If you so fearsome a solid Heavyweight titleist goes to water against you well even more power to you.

Floyd was the 8-5 underdog in the initial match and 4-1 in the rematch. The stylistic edge was resoundingly with Liston.

 

The physical advantage was with Sonny.

Stylistically there was more that Floyd could have done just like stylistically there was more Walcott could have done against Marciano the second time and more Spinks could have done against Tyson and Schmeling against Louis when they were all blown out in one round.

Not being able to get out of the blocks is not a style disadvantage you loony.

 

Sonny is super sharp in this one. Look at how he ducks under Floyd's left hook early on and digs a vicious right hook to his ribs. How many did you see do this against the speed of Floyd? A little later, with Floyd on the ropes, he feints with the jab to make Floyd bend down in anticipation of it and meets him with an uppercut. And the finishing salvo of short compact punches is also terrific.

Apparently Liston didn't train so seriously for this fight and perhaps he'd start to flag if Floyd could have brought him into the later rounds, but he still looks extremely sharp and confident.

Floyd was a boxer puncher, he was never strictly an elusive boxer. Therefore he'd always find it extremely hard against someone so much stronger who also had very good skills.

 

Rocky-Walcott 2 is not a good comparison. Walcott doesn't look hurt at all, he just takes the opportunity to get out. Floyd is floored three times and clearly doesn't know where he is when getting up the third time. Floyd din't quit in any way shape or form.

Tyson-Spinks is a more apt comparison. Yes, perhaps Spinks was a bit frozen with fear, but Mike was still razor sharp. One doesn't have to discount the other.

 

Personally I think Floyd lost the fight when he took the first jarring right to the ribs. It must have taken much of his legs from him along with any confidence he'd managed to drum up between the two fights. To get countered like that on you money punch just after the bell has sounded by a guy that massacred you the last time...

 

No I don’t discount the other. Sonny took care of business like an absolute pro. He had Floyds number. As in he knew he was in Floyds head. This was, in my opinion, the bigger factor. Not getting started is nothing to do with style. It just isn’t a style.

Floyd did not quit. He was brave. There just wasn’t anything he could do about it once Sonny was in his head. Same with Schmeling against Louis. Same with Spinks against Tyson. And possibly the same whin Liston when he fought Clay the second time.

 

Very hard to know these things. For me it looks like a styles thing. Floyd wasn't that comfortable on the back foot and Liston was an expert at driving a man back with his jab and setting him up for the power punches.

Liston-Ali 2 looks very much like Rocky-Walcott 2 to me. The older guy knew he didn't have a chance and wanted to avoid a pointless beating, so he took the first opportunity to quit.

 

If Liston hsd given Floyd another 5 title shot s ,they'd have all ended up more or less the same .Liston had Patterson s number and Floyd could have tried all he could to have won ,but he'd still end up KO'd.No disrespect to Floyd ,he had the heart to win ,just not the capability.

 

Liston simply overwhelmed him and would have in any given scenario. Same with Spinks - Tyson. Liston and Tyson were both primed and have probably seldom been sharper.

It wouldn't matter what (supposed) attitude they come in with. It's not exactly hard to understand given what both did and didn't bring to the table.

 

Not really. Foreman v Frazier could be just as much of an example of simple career timing.