Ali- Who could have beat him?

Maybe. Ali lost his great reflexes post retirement. He also could not move as he did for 15 rounds. Prime Ali speed would be tough for anyone to overcome. There was no need for him to rest along the ropes either in his prime. The closest to prime Ali that Norton fought was in fight two....and this was Alis most decisive win/performance. Ali always said That in his prime Norton would have not posed a problem for him. I believe he would be a problem but Ali would take a clear decision win.

 

Maybe but I could also see Norton beating him. I dont think Ali ever clearly beat him. Fight 2? It was the closest of all their fights but I still had Kenny winning that one.

As for Frazier, Ali said that Joe had the weapon that he was most vunerable to. A good inclose lefthook. Joe had the ability to close distance and cut the ring. Ali wont be dancing for 15 rounds with Frazier. He will have to rest at some point and that is when Joe has his opportunities.

Its always hell with those two guys.

 

Louis' footwork was far from great. If you add his lack of foot speed to that, he posses no threat to either Ali or Wlad. Nothing more than a punchers chance.

I would appreciate the source of Tyson saying that. I remember Tyson being asked if he would beat Klitschkos in his prime and the answer was something like he'd like to think so but the boxing developed very much since his time. Anyway, what they said is pretty much in the benefit on their own agendas. On the other side you can check Manny Steward's interviews and many other guys.

About Brewster, Purity and Sanders argument, don't you think that Wladimir improved since those times? Or you think that it was prime Wladimir who lost to them?

Reality is, if Wlad didn't improve, he would never be the champion he is today. He is not that aggressive anymore, he has extremely good defense, he uses his size and reach wisely, has mastered jab, in other words, let's say he just maximized his talent (He can also thank Sanders for that).

I've already explained to you why Ali stands no chance against guys like Lewis and Wlad. If you are still not willing to back off from usual argument ala "Ali is super quick", "Ali would throw 100 punches per second", "Wlad lost to Purity, Sanders etc so he wouldn't beat Ali", "Ali is invincible", "You know s**t about boxing", then there's no point going on with this discussion. You got your own opinion and I won't be trying to get you to change it.

 

Disagree. The Ali post retirement was a different fighter than pre retirement. Ali could move and move like no other for 15 rounds in his prime. Post retirement he could not. If Ali and Norton had three very close bouts post Alis prime there is a clear likelihood norton would be on the losing end of bouts in Alis prime. Norton himself stated the best Ali fought in all three bouts was in fight two. I was at fight three in NY and at the time was Alis greatest critic. I scored that fight 8-7 Norton. Since that time my experience with the sport has grown and now I generally score the bout 8-7 for Ali. Either way a close bout.

With Frazier yes he had that hook which Ali was open for but Joe greatly benefitted fighting Ali post retirement. Joe would have much more difficulty landing that blow with the reflexes Ali possessed in his prime.

I do agree that both fighters would give him great fights but they would not beat the best Ali.

 

Its reasonable to predict that Wlad could beat Ali. Though I dont agree with it. Its crazy to say Ali has no chance.

 

All I state are the facts. You just don't like them. No fighter who was koed in brutal fashion by Purity, Brewster and Sanders...silly laughable ko losses is going to beat Ali. No serious boxing trainer would think that in his wildest imagination. Add to this the speed reflex difference. Just laughable. I don't know if he has improved or not...he just does not have the skills or style to beat prime Ali. It would be a one sided thrashing.

Tyson and I have had several conversations over the years as well as others I've listed. He laughed...actually they all laughed....when I posed the question.

The leading trainers of the day think otherwise ....you can believe what you like. If you grew up during that time and really knew Ali and his abilities there is no way you could think someone with the style of Wlad would stand a chance against him. Any punch Ali wanted to land he would land any time he would like. Wlad would be cut to ribbons and more than likely quit before he is koed.

 

John..it shows.

Chuvalo was the type fighter that is required to be combative with prime Ali...tough as nail...no quit in Chuvalo with a chin of iron. Wlad has none of these attributes.

Smaller hwts did better with Ali because they could better match his speed....Wlad is big and slow.

 

The mental gymnastics here have been astounding, Houdini.

I mean, you've already suggested that the ghost of Sonny Liston would possess Wlad given that every description you give of how the fight would play out is exactly how Liston 1 & 2 did.

You've also convinced me that Wlad is the most skilled champion in history because you've shown he has no chin, no will, no mental strength, no speed, and no toughness. To overcome that and have one of the longest reigns in history, requires absolutely incredible skill. Nothing Ali does could match it. He's had to win those fights somehow, and to achieve all that with the weaknesses you mention, it can only be God-like skill.

Wladimir takes The Little Engine That Could and shits in its train-mouth. How on earth could Ali stand up to a man like that?

 

Ali fought many slower hwts...he usually knocked them out.

Wlad has been koed no nobodies...bums...not just koed but laughable kos...fall down all over the ring looking for an exit. Watch the fights...all on YouTube. No fighter like that could beat Ali. Too slow, not very durable, terrible mismatch. You can't beat what you can't hit. Wlad will try but man o man he is going to be hit with hundreds of punches.

If you don't know Chuvalo was tough then I can't help you...your worse than I think.

Being close to Alis size has nothing to do with it. Norton was an excellent fighter but indeed he fought non prime Ali. They fought three nip and tuck bouts. I can only believe in his prime a better Ali would perform much better. Unlike you I was at one of those bouts and I scored the fight 8-7 Norton...close. I score it now and it's 8-7 Ali....close. Scorecards were 8-7, 8-7, 8-6-1...all for Ali....close. That 8-6-1 score was from the ref...Arthur Mercante. Can't find a more respected experienced ref possibly in boxing history.

You always write concerning non prime Ali...not the best Ali. But truth be told non prime Ali would also ko Wlad. Just a horrible mismatch. Fastest, greatest hwt vs someone just too slow in comparison. If Wlad thought Purity was tough.....

 

Liston was far better than any fighter Wlad ever faced. Ali knocked him out twice.

Styles make fights. Wlad with no chin, no durability and he certainly aint quick would be lambasted by Ali. How many punches would Wlad eat before he either cuts and the fight is stopped, eats combinations which knock him out (Puritty a bum did it) or quits?

Noone who really knows boxing picks a Wlad over prime Ali. Every noted fighter or trainer I ask that question of laughs. Ridiculous.

 

he may have fought soft competition, but he was never humiliated by them....

 

Both Bowe and Lewis have gone on record to say Ali is the greatest. Tyson and Holmes have stated this as well. Their opinion counts more than you.

 

Ali at his best was unbeatable. In fact we were cheated from witnessing his very best as he was denied his peak years. Ali beat better fighters than Marciano such as Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Joe Frazier and Kenny Norton.

Lewis would have lost to Ali as would the great Joe Louis. Larry Holmes at his best absolute best would have been the toughest match for Ali but Ali would win both of them at their peak. Holmes development as a fighter was due to sparring and learning from Ali.

As for the Klitschkos no one who knows anything about boxing can argue that the Ukrinean sisters would stand a chance other than Vitaly possibly lasting the distance as a human punching bag.

 

There is no evidence...none...that Liston drank and took heroin prior to fighting Ali.

Wlad does not have the skill or toughness to be competitive with Ali. Too slow in comparison and even more important he does not have the will to win at all costs or chin that distinguishes the average fighter from an ATG.

The world of boxing laughs in your general direction.

 

We are talking prime Ali vs Wlad...Ali wins this easily. Wlad is painfully too slow and Ali is the fastest and best hwt there ever was...or at least far closer to that goal than Wlad.

Boxing is not screwed up because of the great fighters and trainers I've listed who all feel Ali would completely destroy Wlad. Boxing is screwed up because of people like you who know nothing of how great a sport it was at one time and buy hook line and sinker the crap that is promoted as championship bouts when in fact that are not. So when you complain about boxings state today look in the mirror as to the ultimate cause.