Alis durability is his best feature

Yeah...Brilliant deduction...and look how he ended up...in the worst condition of any other Heavyweight Champion! The man became a punching bag in the 1970's.

 

Nah, you are really wrong. Chin is literally ability to absorb a flush punch - durability is a mixture of chin, willpower, defensive reflex, experience and 'survivability'.

Ali was knocked down by Banks, Cooper, Frazier to my recollection. I rate his chin in the top level of HWs but Foreman, Chuvalo and McCall all had much lesser defence and head movement than Ali - so they took more shots.

Foreman walks through punches in his prime and absorbs absolute bombs and shellackings in his second career. Ali knew how to avoid taking such punishment and had a resilience and survivability rarely seen, but Foreman's chin was better, if not, more proven.

Chuvalo was strong as an ox, good body puncher, excellent left hook, but he shipped a lot of punches to very good punchers - much less visibly shaken than Ali was when taking big punches on film and renowned as an iron chin.

Tyson has a come forward style, fighting larger men and sometimes will have taken flush punches in his prime without any real distress. He certainly wasn't floored by the likes of Banks or Cooper. What happens to him post Holyfield, I don't really count - the same way that I don't really look at anything Ali did post Shavers (post Manilla tell truth, but Shavers was likely the last semblance of elements of his greatness).

McCall is a chin monster, right up there with Jay Leno. This is a guy who wasn't knocked down at any time during multiple spars with Tyson, a guy who cried in the ring, was defenceless and still stood up to Lennox's punches.

Ali is my favourite fighter but top 1 chin? I would suggest he's more likely top 5 and even then it's fractions of a percentage either way.

 

In the Jerry Quarry biography I’ve been reading, Quarry was quoted as marveling at Ali’s strength, said punching his arms and body was like punching concrete.

And one thing people overlook about Ali amid all the bluster and showmanship is that he was one of the toughest MF’s who ever stepped in a ring.

 

Foreman got knocked down a dozen times by Lyle. I also don’t see any version of Douglas flooring Ali. Tyson and Foreman didn’t fight the hard hitters Ali did and when they did they got hurt often. Ur strength of chin is only as good as the punchers u faced so one can gauge it. Ali took the best prime versions of the hardest hitters in Hw history and didn’t fall. Shavers, Foreman, Liston, Lyle, Williams etc. Ali’s defense was better than Foreman’s but not Tyson’s and he was knocked down himself a few times by some not so big punchers. I think we can agree to disagree here. I do like all those peoples chins by the way and any of them have a case

 

Fairs.

I think the undefeated Foreman was a different fighter mentally to the one that faced Lyle and he still came back to win. A man stripped of his aura of invincibility seems to be less durable and Lyle could crack.

Ali never faced the barrage of punches that Foreman did Vs Evan Fields.

Your strength of chin is only as good as the punch power/ability of the clean punches that test it. If your defence is insane, you could be Floyd and face absolute monsters and get tagged relatively very little and we still haven't learned how good your chin really is.

I genuinely believe there is a discernable difference between your ability to take a shot versus your ability to take a shot and respond straight away so that you fire back or avoid getting overwhelmed. Ali was markedly better than everyone I named as his superior of chin in the willpower and resilience to respond immediately to taking a bad punch. This doesn't mean that I think he would be less visibly shaken when taking said punch. For example, some of what Tyson took from Ruddock, I don't think Ali walks through it the same. Yes, he would win the fight, no doubt in my mind, but single shot, I do think there were better absorbers when hit flush. Ali just ensured he was rarely tagged flush and even when so, knowing how to turn your head on impact was one of his best attributes.

 

Liston underestimated Ali and barely trained. Add to that his shoulder injury and age, and that's why he looked slow.
Also, that Ali was very light, so he moved faster than ever.

 

You can’t seriously tell me the Ali floored by Cooper was in his prime watching him in 1965-67.

 

Are you watching these fights or just Boxrec’ing it? Chuvalo was stopped due to a freak injury against Frazier.

 

I have a problem with individuals who think stoppages other than someone lying flat on the ground doesn’t count as a stoppage. It’s a stoppage. I don’t care if ur out on ur feet or stopped by a cut that counts as to ur durability “strength of chin” isn’t just KO u can be out on ur feet or unable to defend ur self due to injuries. I suppose if u don’t want to count durability it doesn’t matter I’d still go w Ali as he faced better hitters and survived all of them

 

A damaged orbital bone has nothing to do with your chin strength. LOL, c’mon. You just keep repeating names of men Ali beat, but show me where his chin takes a pounding against Liston or Foreman? You can’t. He had a great chin - ATG - no one disputes that. You calling it the best of all-time & it’s not even close - that’s wild.

 

He takes shots in all those fights except Liston 2. He got rocked by a Shavers shot that almost decapitated Holmes and sent him to the canvas. In his old age he would just lay on the ropes and let people pound on him. A terrible strategy I’m sure you’ve heard of. Don’t give me this crap he didn’t take shots. His defense wasn’t that good.
And if ur orbital bone gets broken that’s not the strength of chin argument ur looking for.

 

Slow down the tape - Liston still showed great head movement, slipping the Ali jab and countering plenty of times.

Liston doubles his jab when Ali keeps on slipping the legendary spear jab and then switches up to throwing lead hooks and right hands to the body when he cannot land the jab.

The version of Liston in the first fight was a much better fighter than we often give him credit for. Ali made him miss, made him overreach and marked him up with a twisting jab and some flurries.

This version of Ali was quick but could be excessively herky jerky in his movement. 1966 - 1967 was just as quick but moved more fluidly IMO.

 

Like I said, I can count on one hand the shots he takes clean on the button vs Liston & Foreman. Let’s compare the moment Ali is struck with one right hand against Shavers vs the endless barrage of clean, flush shots Chuvalo endures against Foreman, shall we?

Ali is visibly wobbled & staggers backward. One punch. Chuvalo cops I don’t know how many blows to the head but a tonne off-hand (“It’s an awesome battering Chuvalo is taking, he is now spitting blood!” - Don Dunphy calling at ringside) & never even gets near coming off his feet. As clear a case as you’ll ever see as one chin being better than another.

He completely smothered & nullified prime Foreman’s attack but his defense, “wasn’t that good.” Liston barely struck a blow. Have you watched any of these fights?

 

Ali was hit with over 109 power shots from Foreman. 138 total punches in their fight. That’s not nothing. He was hit by a 103 total from Liston in the first fight.
337 punches from Frazier in Manila
266 from Shavers (209 power punches from the strongest puncher ever).
137 from Lyle over 100 power punches landed.
I don’t know what else to tell you. He got landed on plenty and was still standing.

 

If you want we can go round by round on these fights I’m plenty willing when I find the time. We can count the good chin shots. Not body shots. Chin.