Alis durability is his best feature

Well it seems apparent that Liston trained for a “short” fight vs Ali, so confident Sonny was of an early round KO win - as were the majority of pundits of the day.

Liston’s best weight was about 212 lb. He annexed the title at 213 lb and then defended it at 215 1/2 lb. By the time he fought Ali, Sonny tipped the scales at 218 lbs.

Atop that, Liston’s match fitness (the type of fitness one acquires through real time fighting) was not ideal - Sonny had very few rounds under his belt over the last 2 years or so of his career prior to Miami.

KO artist Foreman was a victim of the same by product when he climbed into the ring to face Ali 10 years later.

George was knocking them dead also but he wasn’t getting the real time rounds he truly needed to engage someone like Ali.

 

How would first career have fared if he was slow of foot and hand and had average fundamentals to fall back on? Alternatively once he hit his straps he was damn hard to hit cleanly against.

 

Liston would have beaten him in first career had that been the case.

Look at Liston's head movement as he negotiated Ali's jab. His slipping and countering look fluent, highly skilled and quick. Give Ali a more orthodox style and slower feet and hands and that version of Liston beats him IMO.

It's a bit like Roy Jnr, put them in with more orthodox fighters and you will find their speed and unorthodoxy resoundly wins most times and hidden behind the flash is ample technical ability.

 

Certainly possible.

Him getting knocked down would have swung some of his fights in the 70s. Alis inability to go down was the essential component of "rope a dope". In the 60s his durability never really came into play though.

 

Exactly.

 

Now you are grasping at straws. Like all Ali fanboys, you cannot accept the fact that some of his opponents were not at 100% when he faced them.
We have plenty of accounts from reputed journalists (such as Jerry Izenberg) and Liston's sparring partner (Amos Lincoln) + those close to Liston that he did not trained properly for the first fight cause he underestimated Ali. And that the delay for their rematch took its toll on Liston.

Liston was still suffering from a left knee injury he got preparing for the second Patterson fight. The fight was originally set for April 4, 1963, in Miami Beach, Florida, but was changed to April 10 when Liston injured his left knee. The match was then moved to June 27 in Las Vegas, Nevada, because of a recurrence of the knee injury.

The knee injury had not fully healed when Sonny signed to fight Ali, so Sonny skipped roadwork to spare his knee. Amos Lincoln would comment in later years: “Sonny was unable to run going into his defense against Clay. He would trot a hundred feet, then go back to the gym. He just couldn’t put pressure on that knee. It took away his lateral movement too.”

As for their 2nd fight, both Jerry Izenberg and Amos Lincoln said that the 6 month delay was a huge blow to Liston, who was unable to do another full training camp, and unable to completely re-train for the new date because of his age and stress on his bad shoulder and knee. Two virtually back to back 90 day training camps were too much for him at his age, and with his chronic injuries.

In his original training camp, for the first time in his career Sonny actually dieted, paid attention to getting enough rest, stopped drinking, stopped eating his beloved hot dogs, ran every day, (spending hours icing his knee after, but able to run and move laterally). Sonny sparred, hit the bags and mitts, did strength and flexibility training, and jumped rope.

He actually trained like a fiend for 3 whole months for the first time in his career - and then, suddenly, he was told he had to do it again.
And health wise, age wise, Sonny simply could not do it twice in a few months.

 

After-the-fact excuses. Did they say this before the fight while training camp was going on?

If Sonny couldn’t train, how was he able to keep fighting?

If he let a postponement get in the way of him preparing or if he did, indeed, underestimate Ali, well that tell us a lot about him. Winners adjust. Losers make excuses.

We also know Ali wasn’t 100% for every fight. Yet he still won the vast majority of them and all the big ones, really (unless you want to count Holmes, when he was a shell). No fighter is 100% for every fight. Cream rises to the top.

 

This is the stupidest thing you've ever wrote.
What fighter or his camp would be stupid enough to let his opponent know (he has injury issues) before a fight ?!?

_If Sonny couldn’t train, how was he able to keep fighting?_
I said he could not train properly, not that he couldn't train at all. And a boxer of his caliber could still fight even without proper training, he just wouldn't be at 100%.

_If he let a postponement get in the way of him preparing or if he did, indeed, underestimate Ali, well that tell us a lot about him._
Nothing apart from what happened, that he underestimated Ali and did not train properly.

_Winners adjust. Losers make excuses._
Utter horse****.

_We also know Ali wasn’t 100% for every fight._
Ali still trained better than Liston.

 

Does Floyd get an * for his win over Pacquiao because Pac had a bum shoulder? My answer is no. Athletes play hurt all the time. It's part of the game. Jack Youngblood played in the Super Bowl with a broken leg. There's no crying in boxing.