Ali's "Gift Decisions" Revisited

Also a stamina issue. Ali did well in the first four rounds in FOTC even though he got tagged at times, but he was running out of steam in the 5th, 6th. If he could have kept up what he was doing in the first four, five for another couple of rounds Frazier might have started to struggle eventually.

 

Ali beats Norton by around 9 - 6 in rounds. ~
Ali clearly outboxes Young but probably goes 15 rounds.
Ali outboxes and stops Shavers.

 

Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Fury, Usyk - they all beat him. I'd also give a slight edge to the Klitschkos and Holmes over him.
Peak or not, Ali still was mistake prone.

 

I do. At the end of the day I see Ali as one of the most intelligent heavyweights to have ever laced them up, if Ali has his athleticism and is without ring-rust, I see him as more than capable of breaking down a prime holmes and liston through his ring iq. If you were to swap Liston in his first fight with Ali for a prime Liston or even prime Holmes, and Ali had done his homework on his opponent all the same. Needless to say I think Ali wins.

 

Stories indicate Muhammad trained and sparred during exile, he carried his equipment around in his car. He wasn’t as rusty as he wants folks to believe, you could argue Quarry and Bonavena were the most dangerous guys he’d faced besides Liston and it’s no wonder he didn’t look “prime” if he’d retired n 67 we’d be talking about a really weak champion.

 

Considering that Muhammad had only seen three rounds of action in three and a half years,the Bonavena fight deserves to be rated as one of Ali's most underrated performances.

 

That was his most God awful to view performance it was also against Bonavena…. People throw “3 rounds in so and so years” a lot for fighters. But the man knew how to prepare for a 15 rounder and he was known to spar very frequently, often at a hard pace. It’s not really some great feat, no disrespect that’s just my opinion on the matter.

 

I see it this way too.

 

The draft dodger is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. Was he good- yes. Did we not see his best do to him making poor decisions- yes. But he can get beat. Any version of him. And let’s not forget who really ran him.

 

OK so using this logic, rust doesn't exist correct?

Anyways as numerous sources confirm, Ali didn't do much sparring nor training for the bout at all.

You already said this and my reply was 45 minutes don't make up for three years of inaction. We're going around in circles here.

1. If those three total rounds were the only action he'd seen in three years he may have showed some chinks in the amour.

2. The situations are not even remotely similar. One of them was fighting an ATG in his prime, the other was fighting..... Frank Bruno.

3. Ali dominated Quarry in his first fight back and stopped him in 6 minutes. Are you going to argue he wasn't rusty for that bout merely because of his performance?

Then you simply don't understand the dynamics of sports.

Ali was still an excellent fighter that night no doubt and head and shoulders better than anyone else in the division at that time but that doesn't mean he wasn't suffering from ring rust. 46 minutes of actual fighting (less time than a typical workout) isn't going to change that.

If you would like to find some evidence, be my guest. The facts are though, this was the best he ever looked imo while you obviously can't say the same about Ali.

Actually we just did a thread scoring this very fight last year and the result when adding all the cards was.... a draw.

Source: https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...mad-ali-i-fotc-50th-anniversary.664266/page-6

Well Mercante was the one closest to the action so I'll take his word over anyone else's.

What ISN'T a minority opinion is that had Ali won just two more rounds, he would've won the fight.

 

And how bout all the Americans who served in that era who were rewarded nothing! Not to mention the ones who gave the ultimate sacrifice. There life.

 

How did you get from my post to the conclusion that ring rust "doesn't exist"?

Seems pretty irresponsible for a professional athlete before such an important fight.

I don't really think there's much more to be said, honestly. Either someone buys that Ali was rusty after almost a year of training, beating two top 10 guys along the way, or they don't.

Well, was he rusty or not? As you yourself point put below, you can be rusty even against inferior opponents.

No. Why would I?

Quite possible.

If it's common knowledge in boxing that being back in action for a year, with two world-level matches against contenders and a third ready to go, is not enough to shake off ring rust, then that's that. Might be nice to have some sources saying that's a general rule, but yeah, to echo your comment in the Ali thread below, I'm fine with people saying I DKSAB.

Comparing in-ring time to workout length like this strikes me as apples and oranges. Elite heavyweights only spend an average of what -- a couple hours a year actually fighting in the ring. That doesn't mean they've only accumulated the equivalent of two workouts' worth of boxing per year.

Interesting! Thanks.