Ali's Greatest Performance Poll

I voted Williams, utterly flawless, the Terrell fight showed his versatility, he went from blitzing Cleveland Williams, on his toes constantly, very aggressive to a slower measured pace, a slow type masterclass were he kept things at the exact pace he liked, to show a complete difference like that in back to back fights is proof of Ali`s greatness.

Ps. if the Foreman fight is on the poll, the 3rd Frazier fight should be also because that was the fight were Ali had to dig deepest, it was the last we ever seen of the real Muhammad Ali.

 

Liston 1.

 

Exactly. Bet the same people who voted for Williams would vote 'Ali' if it were a Frazier poll, rather than some overmatched, undeserving contender who Joe smashed easily.

 

Voted for Zaire and Foreman. Ali dishandled bigger, younger and stronger fighter that was considered unbeatable at that time. Terrell and Williams were legit, but not in Foreman's class.

 

Either Williams or Terrell.

 

Don't know if Frazier himself would say FOTC, though. I think I've seen him say he wasn't at his absolutely best for that fight. If he, or anyone else, would claim that his best perfomance was against Foster I can see why.

 

I tend to favor Frazier in one of his earlier fights also, partly based on what he said in his book. But I can't help but wonder if he's making excuses because let's face it. His fights with Ellis and Foster were a cakewalk compared to his battle with Ali.

 

That could very well be so. But still he looked very good in those fights, so I wouldn't find it that far fetched if he felt he was even sharper against for example Foster.

 

I disagree with anyone who claims Clay totally dominated Liston. It just isn't true. It certainly wasn't one-sided.

I thought Clay won the first round, danced beautifully, caught Liston with a few punches and made Liston miss a lot. But Liston was slipping the vast majority of Clay's jabs too, making Clay miss.

The second round they both calmed down a bit and I thought Liston won, landing a few good body shots and had Clay on the defensive. Not much happened really. Clay avoided most of Liston's punches and Liston slipped most of what Clay threw.

The third round Clay stunned Liston with some sharp punches early on, marked him up, and had Liston on the ropes and backing off, but not for long. Liston stormed back with some hurtful body shots for a sustained period the second half of the round, and had Clay hurt for sure, had Clay holding on and looking pressured, bucked his head back with a short uppercut late in the round. I give Clay the round but it's close.

The fourth round was Liston's, only really by virtue of that short hook he landed. The rest of the round was just Liston stalking Clay and missing with most of his jabs, which were just pawing shots by now (the injured shoulder? fatigue? both ?). Clay threw better jabs, but his were missing too.

The fifth round was Liston's. Clay was blinking and panicking and Liston was fighting strong for a while at the beginning of the round, scoring with body shots. But he looks tired and a bit hesistant and the round wears on and by the end Clay has recovered.

The sixth round certainly goes to Clay and the pace has slowed considerably, both fighters using far less movement. Clay seems to succeed here because Liston almost totally stops moving his head and slipping punches as he had earlier. His swelling under the eyes worsens, and he looks tired.

Liston quits after round six.

I just dont see how it can seriously be called a "domination" or "totally one-sided".
Clay marked up Liston's face a bit, and had him stunned once but not in serious trouble. Clay, by contrast, was unmarked but he was hurt on at least two occasions, but again not in any serious trouble. Liston certainly looked far more fatigued than Clay after 5 or 6 rounds. Asssuming the fight was 100% legit and that none of the "fix" rumours are true, it's true that Clay was the better fighter on the night and to me it looked like Liston wasn't even fit to go the distance, but during the time the fight lasted he certainly wasn't dominated or on the end of a one-sided beating. Both men had their moments, almost in equal measure.

 

It wasn't a one-sided beating, but for me Clay was in control. I'm leaning towards giving him rounds 2 and 4 as well. One of them could be even. No one was landing anything serious in those rounds - Clay some jabs and Liston the occassional body punch - but Liston was missing powerpunch after powerpunch and tiring himself out. Missing jabs won't tire you, but missing haymakers will. Clay displayed very good ring generalship, but Liston's aggression wasn't effective. Quite the opposite. The fact that he even couldn't really hurt a blinded Clay in the only round he won clearly says a lot about Clay's superiorty on the night IMO.

In "King of the World" Ali speaks about his strategy for that fight. Alternating between going after Liston and coasting - letting Liston tire himself chasing him - was the plan he had trained for and I think it's clear he stuck to it. But Liston actually tired sooner than he'd expected (because of pretty poor shape probably) which made him step up the pace.

 

Wouldnt argue with that (even tho I voted Williams), this fight showed Ali at his absolute peak, showing a wide variety of skills, this was the fight were Joe Louis commentating at ringside finally called Muhammad Ali a great fighter.

To see Ali`s greatness in his prime, all you have to do is watch 17 n a half rds of footage.... the back to back Williams & Terrell fights.

:good

 

Why is a poster insistent on calling Ali "Clay." To envoke a reaction?

Anyway, Ali thought his best performance was Thrilla in Manilla due to the conditions, oppositions, and such.

 

I tend to call the pre-Liston Ali Clay. Don't know why really.

 

That makes some sense. However, I think I've seen that poster just constantly refer to Ali as Clay in all regards.

 

Maybe because that's his birth name, and his religious name was a load of ****.