Ali's power?

The difference is, Louis hit hard and Ali didn't. By a big margin.

 

Manassa. How far a margin would you seperate the power between Holmes and Ali?. Holmes wasn't exactly a puncher either, but 8 consecutive stoppages inside the distance aint bad going at all for someone who wasn't known for power. I'm pretty sure that still stands as a record for heavyweight title defenses ending via KO/TKO.

However, after the Cooney fight he never stopped anyone until the annilhilation he dished out against Frazier. And Holmes was very busy between those fights.

 

he had that fast speedy punches in the early rounds which were more to pospon the fight for a bit and to let him win a few rounds...his main objectivce was never for a first round ko but to hold it on a bit for entertainment.

ali could punch he hurt frazier in the II and III fight he koed foreman he koed lyle ,he rocked quarry, backed up chuvalo.

look at the london- ali flurry at the end he couls throw tons of punches but when he saw an opening he really did sit down on his punches and could bang.

i would like to refer you to his style and his movement. he used to move to his left spitting that left hand then he will double it up then throw a right hand.now when he is standing still there is not much to worry about becuase your glove are covering up

but when he moved to his left the jab kept your guard up then he stops jolts foreward and lands a right cross righ on the chin becuase the guard is at the wrong place to block the shot at.

he could ko guys he couls hurt guy and he wouild load up on shots.

he does have power he just didnt use it when he was on his bicycle

 

Agreed. I too beleive Holyfield hit harder than Ali. The thing to focus on here is Ali's power stayed with him. Ali's his right cross could hurt you late in a fight. This right cross that sent Foreman reeling and down happened in 8th round. The right cross that made Ron Lyle do funny things in route to TKO win happened in the 11th round. And of coruse Ali cracked a tough nut in Bonevena after many hard blows to score a 15th round KO.

Most fighters tend to lose the power, speed and snap of their punches as the rounds go on. Ali's power, speed, and snap were still there when he needed in in the mid to late rounds.

 

Holmes stopped Evangelista, Spinks, and Shavers. And all those opponents took Ali the distance.

Berbick and Norton went the full course with both.

 

Holyfield looked as fresh as he ever was when he stopped Tyson in the 10th/11th round though. His stamina (especially when bulked up) wasn't as good as Ali's, but it was good for sure as Tyson found out.

 

Holmes genuinely rattled his opponents. Ali could stun a man, but not as frequently. If Ali's a 5, Holmes would be a 6.5.

 

Agreed. I was thinking the exact same, Holmes one up over Ali. Id probably go with 6.0 or no matter how highly someone rates Ali's power, Holmes deserves that slight one point edge.

 

From the book Muhammad Ali His Life And Times:

"Nilon and I were standing, talking over Sonny , while he was lying on one of those metal tables. All Sonny said was " Thats not the guy I was supposed to fight, that guy could punch.."

Just after the first Clay - Liston fight.

 

Ken norton was asked who hit harder Ali or Holmes and he said Ali.

 

It would be interesting to get a straight answer and consensus about Ali's punching power from Chuvalo, Foreman and Wepner, as they were on the receiving end of some of the hardest punches and most sustained offensive barrages Muhammad ever delivered. (The right hand he took out Foreman with was supposedly the hardest single punch of his career. His whole body straightened out with a jolt when he landed it.) Joe Bugner also took some pretty good whacks to his body from Ali in Malaysia.

Comparing the power of Holmes to Ali is a somewhat tricky proposition for me. Muhammad dropped Folley, London, Lavorante, Powell, Coopman, Blin, Foster, Foreman and Wepner for the count. (I know that Tony Perez waved off the count on Wepner at seven, but the fact remains that Chuck was still struggling to get back up, and made it unassisted a couple seconds after Perez would have counted ten, so I consider that a clean knockout for all intents and purposes.) That's nine opponents with winning records down for the count.

Holmes only did that to Evangelista and Zanon in his prime, although he came close to doing it with his uppercut against Weaver. The jab he floored Ocasio with to score his first knockdown against Jaws nearly had Ossie down for the full count as well.

Larry banked on a single blow to decide the outcome of his matches more than Muhammad did. His uppercut against Weaver, his ninth round right hand off the ropes against Witherspoon, and the thumb he jammed in LeDoux's eye to send Scott to his knees are good (if not always legal) examples of this. His jab was also harder than Ali's, much harder if he was advancing on an opponent.

Shortly before Holmes dropped Leon Spinks, he walloped Leon with a left hook which made his hapless target's entire body quiver. But when Larry had an opponent on the ropes, in serious trouble, he frequently became a one armed puncher, using his left only to measure his foe prior to uncorking his right repeatedly. (This is typified by the way he finished off both Leon Spinks and Marvis Frazier.)

Unlike Holmes, we don't see Ali stick out his left as a measuring device so often. When he first got Lyle on the ropes in their final round, he took a step back, then began doubling up on his hook. In the second round of his middle fight with Smokin' Joe, some of the bombs he drove Frazier back to the ropes with were multiple hooks. Even in retirement, Muhammad has demonstrated a fine hook on the heavy bag for the camera on a few occasions. Ali had the far more damaging hook, while Holmes had the more hurtful jab (when he chose to sit down on it, and use it as an offensive weapon).

While Ali nailed Bugner with some good bodyshots in their rematch, they didn't have the perceptible impact that Larry's late body attack had on Carl Williams.

I wouldn't be confident picking one over the other without an opportunity to hold a heavy bag for them both to pound away on.

 

Interestingly, Berbick also indicated this.

 

Yeah it's an interesting one isn't it mate. Holmes threw the consistently heavier blows but Ali has some of the better single blow results in some ways. Ali has some single punch wreckages, but Larry was more of a clubbing puncher if it makes sense as he was still fast as hell. Many stoppages he clubbed the guy to death, Marvis Frazier etc. I'll say one thing, Holmes stopped a lot of people that had never been stopped/and or had good chins thru sheer class, prolonged steady pressure, stamina and will to win. The Weaver stoppage did actuall come at the end of a gruelling bout more than anything else. Holmes blows heavier, Ali's more potentially dangerous i think.

 

I think Holmes hit a little harder and had more mercy on his victims.

 

I disagree. Foreman was completely spent. It was a good shot, but had Ali landed 5 of them in round 1 or 2 or 3, Foreman would have went nowhere.