Ali's power?

Ali tamed 2 bullies at the time he fought them - Liston then Foreman. Bullies quit mentally even more so than physically. Once Ali was in that ring he was never intimidated like other fighters.

 

He's in good company tho, Duran is no different among myriads of others.

 

Good stuff mate

:good

 

Ali had good power. He knocked out Foley with one punch.

 

Ali could hit when he really wanted to, but he is of the same ilk as Holyfield and Holmes, with Ali being the sharper puncher and them, the heavier handed punchers.

Ali threw more with disorientating power than true concussive power, although, one shot has been proven to be a true difference maker e.g. Bonavena, Lyle ... and his sharpness and accuracy able to stagger and down opponents in an instant e.g. Liston in 1st fight, Folley

 

So when it comes to rating Foreman's chin, Zaire can be totally forgotten about altogether?. Getting rattled with a combination and ending up on the floor is as good as Foreman staying on his feet?. Thats certainly the way Mr Thomas sees things or bordering on it.

Even if George was able to rise and come back for more suffering, he still hit the canvas. However, his recovery powers would then be further enhanced. Still doesn't matter if he came back to pull out the win, he hit the canvas. Fantasy and unrealistic on my behalf, as what happened, happened.

Humidity, exhaustion, tormented, etc. Thats been part of boxing since "Toledo, Ohio" and centuries beyond. Not so much these days with air conditioning inside casinos, and outdoor arenas not as popular as a few decades ago.


Never forget about the punches in Zaire. :bbb

 

You're getting adventurous/reckless with your wording again. Mr Thomas didn't say anything even remotely close. Again.

Holmes hit the canvas a handful of times, including against the average punching Snipes. Via your criteria Holmes has a glass jaw?

The thing is Stone, myself and others factor in the various intangibles here, some that are extreme and way out of the norm, to gain a suitably realistic (in our opinion) take on the matter. You, for whatever reason (non comprehension, extreme view, hard view on supposed weakness etc i don't know) don't.

 

I think a new rule should be applied to boxing. Instead of a knockout or technical knockout, we should have an exhaustion stoppage. This stoppage would be the decision of the referee, and consultation with the doctor when exactly it would be administered, if needed during a contest.

A local commissioner would be seated at ringside as an "exhaustion moderator" who gets the final say on the stoppage being a KO/TKO or an exhaustion stoppage. He can overrule the referee and the doctor. Any fighter who gets knocked down over the course of a fight and is totally exhausted, tormented, and mentally beaten, gets the benefit of the doubt if in the opinion of the officials he was unable to continue due to everything out-weighing the punches stopping the fighter.

 

We'll call it the Robbi rehabilitation stoppage

 

I never said Foreman had a glass jaw. But in my opinion hitting the canvas against Ali shouldn't be overlooked when rating his chin, it can't be brushed to the side due to "exhaustion".

Holmes' chin was solid, just like Foreman's. He came off the canvas to stop Shavers and Snipes, thats a bit different to staying there and not getting up. Certainly when I rate Holmes' chin, I don't ignore the knockdowns he suffered, even though he hauled himself together to come back and win.

 

You know I like to throw in a bit humour at times. :good

 

Ditto, as just shown

:good

 

Any world class heavyweight, no matter how apparently light featherfisted he is, can occasionally turn one over perfectly. The amazing thing about the Snipes right hand is that Holmes got back up and recovered from it as quickly as he did.

Shavers could be expected to do that to Holmes (or virtually any heavyweight for that matter). But the previously uncharacteristic sudden display of power Snipes unexpectably sprung on Larry would have dethroned many heavyweight champions anticipating a relatively routine victory. It was the same sort of punch Rachman and McCall dethroned Lennox Lewis with. Renaldo's technical execution of that right was nearly flawless. Only a true ATG heavyweight could have recovered from that sort of ambush, as Frazier did in the first meeting with Bonavena, or Ali against Cooper, or Jack Johnson against Ketchel. (I realize Stan only weighed 159 pounds, but he did surprise Lil' Artha with a truly massive shot, and it's crucial to Johnson's legacy that he came off the deck to win so quickly.)

Foreman's legacy would not be quite the same without his rise from the canvas to triumph over Lyle.

I realize I'm digressing from the thread topic here, but a number of prominent heavyweights never came off the floor to win. (Tyson, Lewis, and Liston, to name a few of the more recent ones.)

My suspicion is that Foreman's chin actually ossified when he reincarnated. The version of George who faced Lyle might have been floored by Cooney's hook, while the edition of Foreman who stood up to Gentleman Gerry's bomb could possibly have kept his feet against Lyle. The lumbering monster who effortlessly shoved Morrison about may have been the physically strongest boxing champion who ever lived. His ability to take a punch seems to have been bolstered as well. Although resistance training is not without controversy in boxing, it does seem to have some value in enhancing the ability to withstand and recover from punishment, when used to strengthen and develop the muscles which can help absorb the shock from heavy punches.

One thing Ali's mobility sometimes allowed him to do was step quickly out of his opponent's line of vision, and spin the point of his target's jaw. He did this twice against Folley, and Zora never really recovered from that first hook knockdown which turned the match Ali's way. The threat of his speed could also cause his objective to flinch, as appeared the case with London. Of course it's often the punch one doesn't see which takes him out. Folley never saw what hit him, and his speed literally blinded London. As fast as Holmes was, he was usually facing his adversary, beating him into submission rather than catching him off-balance.

In the bout where Liston was dethroned, he was nearly dropped by a right hand at the outset of round three, a right hand that looked an awful lot like the one which produced the knockdown against Sonny in the Lewiston rematch with Ali. (That near KD which sent Liston back to the ropes is a key reason why I believe the flooring in Maine to have been legitimate. Compare the footage. They're virtually identical.) Muhammad was more likely to catch a challenger out of position.

While this is an interesting topic to speculate about, I wouldn't care to be hit by either one. (Even with Ali in his present condition.)

 

Well he was hurt worse by Holmes so maybe it's just a pride thing.

 

Duran is completely ridiculous.

Even the shot by Barkley that sent his head spinning like "The Exorcist" was minimized. Remember that shot? It was round 8 I think and Barkley came up in a short pivot with a short left hook that landed flush. And what does Duran say?

"he hit me on my neck and knocked me off balance"

The fact is, his eyes rolled around like a loony tune.