Ali's power?

Define "bully" please.

 

Ossification. Interesting and your suspicion is shared here.

1987+ Foreman was a different fighter with a better chin. He was plenty heavier and his neck was thicker and so served as a better shock absorber. I suspect that it was more than that. Foreman went on sabbatical -literally-and returned a more formidable man. He offered his life to something larger than himself and believed that the power appointed him an instrument. He became a man with a destiny -personal and spiritual. He was taken the shots -period. And so he did. Old Foreman is scary in that sense. I got the feeling when watching his bouts against Alex Stewart and Moorer that here was a man who was prepared to die.

Holyfield is an example of the good and the bad of such a mindset. For other examples in history, see John Brown and the major slave rebels like Nat Turner and Gabriel. See Oliver Cromwell.

Anyway, a large % of the steel in chins is determination and will and the belief that it cannot be dented. "I think, therefore I am" said Descartes. And it applies in the naked ring more than most places.

 

Agreed. Myself and Manassa were discussing Hagler's chin on another thread. Taking shots has much to do with concentration, which ties in with your determination, will, and belief. As I said on the other thread "mind over matter".

Prime Chavez was a great example. He never even blinked when a bomb landed on his chin, it was like he wasn't even being hit with his reaction to a heavy punch.

Neck muscles toughen up the ability to take shots.

 

6-6.5. A fair puncher. Norton said he could punch ok but Patterson said he was one of the weakest punchers he ever fought, Cooper said the same.

 

Who would be a 1 or 2 then, if we're talking heavyweights?

 

Ali was a shock puncher like Hagler. A good example of the way he jolted his man can be seen in the second Quarry fight, Ron Lyle, and Wepner.

 

Dunno. Is anybody a '1 or 2'? Richard Dunn perhaps?

 

Rudi Lubbers must be low. Marvis Frazier has to be around the 3 or 4's too.

 

Louis, Tyson, Shavers, and Foreman. All around 9.0/9.50.

 

Barbados Joe, Harry Greb etc

 

You know, having brought that question up, few heavyweight pairings could have produced a greater differential in punching power than Shavers/Young, Shavers/Caldwell, Young/Foreman, Cooney/Young, Young/Lyle, Foreman/Caldwell and Lyle Caldwell. Loughran/Baer also comes to mind.

Among those who have competed in heavyweight championship fights, I put Shavers at the absolute top of the list, and Loughran at the bottom with Zanon and Young (plus a few challengers of Louis and Charles, like Farr, Natie Brown and Freddie Beshore).

 

LaStarza probably could be included in that list, too.

 

And I don't factor in various intangibles?. I sure do, however those factors which you put together to gain a realistic take on the matter out-weigh mines to an absturd degree.

JT, If you actually read it again. Im not saying your more realistic than myself when it comes to weighing everything up. Im just saying all your factors put together. Humidity, exhaustion, tormented, etc, are taken much heavier into account than you than with me. I take them into account, but much lighter. Hence why I said "outweigh mines".

Just thought Id clear that up, because it looks like Im agreeing with you.

 

I very nearly included him, but figured I already accumulated enough striking contrasts.

 

For sure mate. Twas a big punch.