Ali's Resume...

chuck wepner.

 

Foreman and Frazier II and III

Liston was shot and lackluster in both fights. Gassed after four rounds. No way this win is big. It was a big surprise, but in retrospective not a big win.

 

:huh

 

Liston was no way shot in the fights, especially the first. At the time people were calling him the greatest heavyweight all time, better than Louis, better than Dempsey. He was like Tyson was in his prime, maybe better. Ali made Liston look 'shot' and 'luckluster' because thats how superior a fighter he was.

 

thinking styles make fights and the fact he was getting older, i think ken norton deserves a mention. ali lost a lot in the trilogy with frazier, and all the presure from norton gave him fits. showed a ton of heart to deal with him. greatest victory on paper is foreman, but i think his style played into ali's hands. greatest victory in reality, was in manilla. 14 rounds of all action, no let-ups, against a guy who broke his jaw and he knew could hurt him. ali showed speed, power, endurance and most of all heart vs frazier that day. got to be the #1 victory.

 

Have you considered following Volleyball ?

Or maybe synchronized swimming ?




Liston and/or Foreman were his greatest victories.

 

Ali made all his opponents look better than they really were. Frazier, Norton, Patterson, Foreman, Liston, Lyle, Young, Folley, Bonavena, Quarry, Cleveland have all been mythologized to be far superior than they actually were. In reality they are the peers of Brewster, Thompson, Austin, Mavrovic, Mercer, Tua, Byrd, etc.

Alis resume is no better than any other great dominant HWT champ. But Ali's era got and still gets the most media attention and exposure. So his myth and resume are distorted.

 

Just out of curiousity, which other great dominant HWT champ has a better resume ?

 

No one can say which resume is better. All dominant champ's resume's are the same, they dominated their respective eras. I do think Holmes would beat everyone Ali/Clay beat. As would Lewis and Klitschko.

Frazier and Norton and Foreman are mythified, look at their styles and skills with a critical eye. They would get crushed today.

 

???

By extension, one you would probably then agree that this was true of other weight divisions too.

And that would result in all great champions being regarded as being the same.

And that would rule out any differentiation of their respective greatness.





That's why I asked which champ had a better resume.

I guess I should have asked you to be specific.

Humor me with an example.

 

No one punched like Foreman, and I honestly think that Frazier was a better fighter than Tyson in his prime. If there was no Ali there would have been a lot more champs, I think people would be calling Liston the greatese HW of all time, as with others. Holmes was a very good fighter, but a prime Ali would have danced circles around him, Frazier and Foreman would haven also beaten him with ease.

 

Don't know what to tell you Cuch re records of greats. They're all unique. Maybe Louis had the best record as champ.

Joe Frazier was practically one armed. Foreman was powerful but an arm puncher who struggled mightily with smart boxers. Holmes would have whupped them both. Foreman knew it too, it's why they never fought in the 90s. Foreman knew he surely would have lost to Holmes.

 

Ali's 5 greatest wins are

1. George Foreman
2. Joe Frazier III
3. Sonny Liston (could be 2)
4. Joe Frazier II
5. Could choose from a host of fights I would go with Norton II but Bonavena, Quarry, Lyle, Shavers, or Jimmy Young are all good choices.

 

Ali's highlight moment has to be Foreman. That's what concreted his legend. He even transcended himself, if that was humanly possible, that night in Africa. Thought both those Liston wins looked strange. Liston quitting was bizarre.

 

absolute bollocks.