All opinions welcome - Rating Floyd Mayweather as a skilled ATG

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Mar 5, 2009.


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  1. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Good post.

    However, I personally do not think Floyd was as effective a fighter as peak Roy Jones, not even very close to it either.

    And he may have been flashier and to some extent slicker than Bernard Hopkins, but I don't believe he was a more skilled boxer.
     
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    #76
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If you say you don't want to talk about skills independent of speed-tools, I have no problem with that, but I do think it's important to say that you are defining skills as including speed.

    For my own part, I see skill as something that can be defined apart from speed.
     
    McGrain, Mar 6, 2009
    McGrain, Mar 6, 2009
    #77
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Cheers chap.
     
    McGrain, Mar 6, 2009
    McGrain, Mar 6, 2009
    #78
  4. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Have you read the thread on the old gym rat, Don Familton, watching Hopkins? He's seen all the greats from since world war II, and he said Hopkins was the best fighter he's seen in terms of the fundementals.
     
    Robbi, Mar 6, 2009
    Robbi, Mar 6, 2009
    #79
  5. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    The jab was effective, because it was leading to Oscar winning rounds.

    :-( Yet another revisionist historian. For the first half of the fight Floyd was awful and Oscar was edging the rounds.

    :lol: If Oscar had got far more hurt than he actually did get, he may have eventually been KO'd! Great point PP!
     
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    #80
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think he's proven that now, actually, with the longevity. I mean aside from that very fine opinion, he now has a serious achievement to point towards that proves this, in its way.
     
    McGrain, Mar 6, 2009
    McGrain, Mar 6, 2009
    #81
  7. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I haven't seen it mate, I'll certainly hunt it down though. B-Hop is one of my all-time favourites, I think the guy is just incredible.
     
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    #82
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Tito gets outboxed everytime he faces a boxer - DLH, BHOPs and even Vargas when he chose to box got the better of Tito. Tito was kept away from Quartey, Winky Wright, Semi-Prime Whitaker and Norris. FMJ would shut Tito out because he doesn't have the boxing skill to compete

    ODLH was even more 1dimensional at 147 and should have lost to Quartey and Whitaker adding to his Mosley loss. He also doesn't have as greater size advantage at 147 and who knows perhaps doesn't choose Floyd's gloves and ring size.

    Floyd vastly vastly outlanded his opponents every fight at WW, showed superior defense, technique, boxing ability, speed
     
    PowerPuncher, Mar 6, 2009
    PowerPuncher, Mar 6, 2009
    #83
  9. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Robbi, Mar 6, 2009
    Robbi, Mar 6, 2009
    #84
  10. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    1. Yawn, only if you score missed punches, Oscar threw lots of missed punches

    2. Floyd outlanded Oscar in every round, he didn't do that much offensively but did plenty to win

    3. OK you've clearly never boxed, when a fighter goes into a shell, covers up and stops throwing you haven't got anything like the same opportunity to KO them, theres no openings. Maybe Oscar got rocked and new if he kept missing and getting countered he'd get ko'd and went into the shell
     
    PowerPuncher, Mar 6, 2009
    PowerPuncher, Mar 6, 2009
    #85
  11. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Floyd Mayweather was not the same fighter at 147 that he was at 130 - and he knew it. Hence the fact that he fought Mitchell, Judah, Baldomir and Hatton at the weight, and not Williams, Cotto, Mosley and Margarito. I'm not saying all (or any) of the latter four would have beaten Floyd (I think Floyd would have beaten Margarito and Cotto pretty comprehensively to be honest), but he was not as sure of himself at 147 - perfectly understandable since he was 17lbs north of his best fighting weight.

    The 4 fighters Mayweather fought at 147 - none of them were anywhere near the level of an Oscar, a Tito, a Mosley, or even a Quartey.

    Mitchell, Judah and Hatton were small ww's. Baldomir was big but dire.

    Floyd fought a well past-prime Oscar at 154 and looked a shadow of the 130 version who wrecked Corrales.


    I ask again, what in his ww career suggests he could defeat big, strong, proven, top quality welterweights like Oscar, Tito, SSM and Ike?

    For the first half of the fight before the Olden Boy gassed, his jab and his physical authority were giving Floyd problems.

    This suggests prime versions of ODLH,Tito,Mosley,Quartey would have given the 147 version of Mayweather all sorts of problems.
     
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    #86
  12. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    This makes no sense. You are saying if Oscar let Floyd hit him, he might have got knocked out. An utterly worthless comment.

    He didn't get dropped, nor even close to it. He took a clean shot, covered in anticipation of an attack, regrouped, fought on. So what? That happens ten times a round in most fights.
     
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    #87
  13. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    DINAMITA, Mar 6, 2009
    #88
  14. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Again you've clearly never boxed if you can't grasp thsi simple point, when a boxer throws punches he leaves himself open to counter punches, if you can't grasp that you don't know boxing, Oscar stopped throwing, maybe he was just punched out or maybe he knew if he exchanged he'd get ko'd
     
    PowerPuncher, Mar 7, 2009
    PowerPuncher, Mar 7, 2009
    #89
  15. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    1. Floyd didn't have the same physical advantages at 147, hes still an elite WW of all time, just like Ross, Duran, Armstrong no longer have their physical advantages at 147.

    As for the avoidance of top WW's, you should also note Robinson, Ross, Armstrong avoided top WWs, are they not confident at the weight. Mayweather fought the last 2 Lineal 147lb Champions, 140lb linear champ and Welterweight WBA belt holder and 1 of the best WWs of the past 10years at 154 while probably being outweighed by 15lbs. Are you trying to tell me Williams/Margarito had a better skill set than DLH or were bigger? Have either even beaten anyone better than a 154lb Mayorga at that stage?

    Why would he face unkown WBO belt holders instead of the big names and real champions? Floyd fought all the biggest money fights and most proven fighters. Cotto and Mosley both avoided Floyd anyway so they're irrelevant

    2. Well Hatton/Judah/34yo DLH aren't too far away from Oscar, Tito, Mosley, Quartey anyway. Judahs faster than the lot, Hatton brings more pressure than any of those, Old DLH is more skilled than younger DLH. All 4 had losses and poor performances at the weight and much more clear weaknesses than FMJ himself.

    3. Hatton weighs upto 160lbs on fight night, how is he a small WW? FMJ was in effect a WW against DLH and fought someone most likely weighing in at SMW

    4. Styles make fights although I'd agree FMJ was past prime and the added weight slowed him down

    5. Simple hes a better boxer than DLH, Tito, Quartey, Mosley who all make many more mistakes and have more flaws. Tito simply couldn't beat a highly skilled boxer. DLH had no head movement at 147 and also can't compete with slicker boxers. Quartey is 1 paced. Mosley is easy to hit, fights small and telegraphs a weak jab

    6. Some may have given him problems, but he still isn't losing to any
     
    PowerPuncher, Mar 7, 2009
    PowerPuncher, Mar 7, 2009
    #90
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