All time contenders tournament thread

Round 1, Bracket B.

Lastarza vs Lyle

Lastarza was an excellent boxer with speed, accuracy and reasonable mobility. Lastarza out boxed several contender in his era. He matches up well vs slower punchers or boxers his size, but failed to score a KO vs his best opposition. His main draw backs were lack of power and an Ok chin.

Lyle was an early version of a skilled super heavyweight. He was tall, and fought at a good weight his size. Lyle was also a fine boxer with good power. Lyle scored some nice wins in a tough era. His main draw back was his chin vs the bigger punchers. Lyle also had fits with top pressure fighters, and seemed to lack the extra something special to win his biggest matches, though he nearly did so vs Foreman and Ali.

As the fighters enter the ring, the difference in the way the fighters are built is obvious. Lyle starts out as the aggressor in round one. It’s mostly a feeling out process. Lastarza is moving well. In round two, Lastarza's footwork and quick jab scores. Lastrarza takes round two. In round three is even. Lastarza does well in the early part, but Lyle rocks Lastarza with a 1-2 at the end of the round. Rounds four, and five are Lyle's. He has figured out Lastarza's style and feels confident that he can take his punch. Lastarza is too defensive. Lyle works the body and the head equally well. Round six is all Lyle's. He catches Lastarza in the corner and peppers him with shots. Lyle's superior height and reach has zoned Lastarza. As Lastarza tries to get out of the corner, he is caught with a wild hook. He's stunned! Lyle lands two hard right hands, and an uppercut. Lastarza sinks to the canvas. 1....2....3....4.....5....6.... ( DING the bell sounds ) ....7...and he's up at 8.

Form here on in the fight is mostly Lyle's. Lyle wins rounds seven, eight, nine and ten. Lyle is just landing the harder shots and making the fight. Lastarza has his moments in round eleven when he lands a beautiful three punch combination, which earns Lastarza the round. Round twelve and Thirteen are rather boring and can only be scored for either fighter or as an even round. Round fourteen starts out with action. Lastraza lands early, and then runs. Ring side observers feel that Lyle is beginning to tire. Lyle is offering little chase. Lastarza is the fresher of the two. Round fourteen goes to Lastarza. The final round starts out with an early exchange. Lyle gets the better of it. Lastraza chooses not to engage for rest of the round. The final bell rings. We go to the score cards.

It’s a unanimous decision for Lyle on points. The best card has it 9 rounds to 5 for Lyle with one round even. Lyle received a 10-8 round in the sixth frame.


Historical reasoning: Lyle had the power to KO guys like Shavers, Garcia, Kirkman, and Mathis. He nearly Ko'd Foreman! Lyle also had the skills to out box fighters like Ellis, and Bugner. He nearly out boxed Ali! Although it meant nothing in this fight, Lyle beat a fair swarmer in Bonnevena. My point is, it seems that only the best punchers, the best swarmers or the best boxers could beat Lyle. Lastraza was a good boxer, but is best stuff on the outside was limited due to Lyle’s equally good skills and superior height, and reach. Lastarza did not have the puncher's chance in this fight either, and he certainly was not one to mix in exchanges with bigger punchers. So the best call is Lyle wins, and Lastarza finishes the fight on his feet.

 

Round 1, Bracket A

Godfrey vs Godoy.

This is a most unusual match up. I must admit I have no clue on how it will go down until I'm finished typing.

Godfrey was a very big man in his own era. He stood 6'3", and his best weight was about 240-250 pound. Godfrey had a big punch, and looked reasonably athletic on film vs Carnera. How good Godfrey was is open to debate. Some view him as an all time top 25 heavyweight. Godfrey's main weakness was a shaky chin and tendency to throw low blows. Godfrey was a black version of Andrew Golota. I really believe that.

Godfrey was about 6’1”, and a solid 205 pounds. Godoy is a unique fighter. He had tremendously strong legs, top footwork, great stamina and an iron chin. Godoy fought out of a low crouch. He could make himself an extremely low target, almost beyond belief. This enabled him to duck punches. Godoy was also capable of bulling his man to the ropes. He was a very active fighter, who sometimes mixed in rule bending fouls in the clinches. Godoy looked very good vs Joe Louis, and likely won the first fight. In the second fight, Godoy proved his gameness and chin. Godoy's main weakens was average power and tendency to do silly things in the ring.

Round one! Godoy comes out dancing, and jabbing. Godfrey can't seem to catch up to him. After a few quick jabs and shoves, Godoy takes round one. Round two looks exactly like round one, including the shove at the end. In round three, Godfrey lands a big right off the top of a ducking Godoy's head. Godoy takes the shot well, bulls the bigger Godfrey to the ropes, and then throws a dozen punches that land to the head and body. Ten seconds before the bell, things get wild and Godfrey wrestles Godoy to the ground! The referee breaks up the action. Round three is Goddoy's. Round four shows Godfrey in chase, but his head shots are having difficulty finding their mark vs the ever moving and crouching Godoy. While Godoy was posing in the ring, Godfey lands a smashing right hand that sends Godoy sprawling back wards on the ropes. Man that was a hard shot. Godfrey wins round four. Round five features Ruiz like jabs and clinches by both men. Godoy is doing some crazy stuff in the clinches and out working Godfrey.Godfrey losses his cool and attempted an obvious low blow. The punch lands in the middle of the crouching and ducking Godoy’s back. That's a first in boxing! Round six is strange. Godoy is circling around the ring with a smile, while Godfrey gives chase. Godoy is too hard to catch for the most part. Godfrey wins the round by default. In round seven Godoy amazingly does the same thing. More running dancing and ducking. The crowd boos lustily, then boos some more. This is pure &hit. Godfrey finally lands something solid. It’s a hook. The crowd cheers. Godfrey lands here and there. More movement by Godoy. Now he’s talking to Godfrey. As he circles back and forth, he reverses his pattern and catches a frustrated Godfrey with a hard hook. Godfrey's legs wobble! Godfrey clinches as the bell sounds. The fighter exchange words after the bell sounds. Tough round to score! Round eight is boring as both fighters amazing decide to take it off after a heated end to round seven. Round eight is even by default. In round nine, Godfrey lands a combination, and backs Godoy on the ropes, then lands an intentional low blow. Godoy goes down in pain. The crowd hisses. The referee takes a point away from Godfrey. Godoy says he's ready to go after a short break, and boy is he ever. An aggressive Godoy comes out firing. Godfrey catches a sloppy Godoy with hard shots, but the dogged Godoy continues to press the action. Godoy's chin is holding up very well, but his face is starting to bust up. Five seconds before the bell sounds, Godoy lands a hard uppercut, but Godfrey takes it well. Round nine is Godfrey's but the low blow makes it even. Godfrey gets on a roll in round ten and eleven. He wins them by landing the cleaner and harder shots. In round twelve, Godrey gets caught with an accidental head butt when Godoy explodes out of a crouch. The result is Godfrey's eye is badly cut. Godfrey looses his cool and attempts to foul back but strikes Godoy’s leg! Godoy just won't stay still for him. At the end of the round, Godoy begins to land shots all over Godfrey's head, arms, and body. Big round for Godoy. Round thirteen is all Godoy's. Godfrey looks tired. Godfrey looks like he doesn't’want to fight anymore. Godoy takes round fourteen by landing a tripple jab on the cut. In round 15 Godfrey swings for the fences early then coasts the final two minutes. The final bell sounds. We go to the score cards.

Godoy wins a unanimous decision. The fight can only be described as bizarre affair that featured some boxing, a game of keep away, some intentional fouls, some wrestling, and some very dull moments.

Historical reasoning: You'd have to see both fighters on film to appreciate the multiple scenarios that could play out in the ring. Godoy was a pain in the neck to hit, and when you caught him, he was hardly ever hurt. Godfrey was a bit of a hit or miss type of fighter. Mentally Godfrey could become frustrated, and Godoy's style and antics made it difficult for Godfey to focus in. Godoy had better stamina on film, and that was the deciding factor in the championship rounds. At least that's how I would see it.

 

Round 1, Bracket B. Bonevenna vs Conn

Bonevenna was a tough fighter in the 1970's. He had a swarming style, a top chin and a fair amount of power. Not an easy out for anyone, including Joe Frazier. Bonevenna main weakness was he wasn't a great boxer and seemed to lack a good plan B.

Conn was on of the best light heavies of all time. He had fast hands, good combinations, and good footwork. Conn was also a gritty fighter. In truth he whipped some of the same guys that Louis and Charles did. Conn's main weakness was lack of a big punch at light heavyweight, and lack of size in general. There is no doubt he could fight.

In round one, Conn looks intimated early by Bonevenna swarming style and power. Bonevenna takes round one. In round two Bonevenna catches Conn with a hook and shakes him up, but Conn rally to win the rest of the round! Conn goes on a roll in rounds three, four and five. Conn's footwork, and quick in and out style are frustrating Bonevenna. In round six Bonevenna lands a body shot and nearly doubles Conn over, but Conn clinches and does not go down. Bonevenna wins round six BIG. Rounds seven is too close to call. Conn scores more, but Bonevenna landed the harder shots to the head and the body. Round eight is delayed a bit due to loose tape on Conn's glove. Bonevenna's corner is furious! Bonevenna looks sloppy in round 8, and get cut with a short right hand. The cut seems to re-energize Conn, as he zeros in on the red areas. Conn wins round 8. Conn looks sensational in round nine and wins it with crisp combinations. Round ten is uneventful, but Conn was the better Bonevenna mounts a comeback in rounds eleven and twelve. It seems like Conn's legs have slowed down a bit. Bonevenna is now landing some flush shots. Billy head looks like a bobble head doll. Round thirteen is Bonevenna's by a small margin. Round fourteen is also Bonevenna's. Conn can't hold him off anymore with his footwork and combinations. Bonevenna scores on the ropes. Both fighters faces are badly marked up. Conn slips at the end of the round from a push. Round 15 features some spirited fighting. It could have been scored either way. The bell sounds, we go to the cards.

Conn wins via split decision! The score cards revel that Conn did enough early to off set Bonevenna's late surge.

Historical reasoning. Bonevenna often lost matches to smaller but faster boxers such as Patterson, Ellis, and Foley. Conn was not as strong as Patterson, Ellis, or Folley, but I felt he would win more rounds and hang tough when he needed to. In the biggest matches, Bonevenna often lacked the big punch he needed to win. Like many matches of all time contenders, one can argue that they could go either way.

 

Round 1, Bracket A

Shavers vs Folley.

Shavers was a puncher's puncher. Shavers was perhaps the hardest single shot hitter in the history of the ring. He had a lot of heart as well. Shavers weakness was never a natural boxer. Shavers lacked stamina. He had a shaky chin. Shavers also had problems with cuts. Yet despite his flaws, if he caught you flush once, that was usually it for the night.

Folley was an good fighter. He was a sound ring technician on offense and defense who relied on skills to win. His weakness was lack of a big punch, lack of aggression, and a suspect chin to punchers.

Round one starts off with Folley trying to keep Shavers at bay with his jab. Good technique by Folley allows him to score and reset. Shavers swings wildly but doesn't land anything solid. Folley takes round one. In round two, Folley does more of the same, but his not putting his weight into the shots. Shavers dozen’t seem to be intimidated by Folley's offense. Folley does enough to win round two. In round three Shavers lands a thudding body shot. Folley grimaces, and clinches. A few moments later Shavers lands a booming right. BAM! Folley drops as if he has been shot. The count begins. 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...and he's up at eight. But he looks to be done for! Shavers moves in the for kill. A left, than a right to the jaw spins Folley’s body around. Shavers rams home a borderline foul shot that put Folley into the ropes. Folley looks like a puppet whose stings have been tangled. The count begins....1....2....3, and the referee wisely waives the fight off. Folley corner men rush to his aid. That was a devastating knock out win for Shavers.

Historical Reasoning: Folley's chin could be had. Folley was not rangy enough with his attack, nor did he hit hard enough to capitalize on Shavers weaknesses early in the fight. Shavers proved he could KO good boxers early in fights such as Ellis, Norton, and Young once he landed.

 

Round 1, Bracket B.

Ellis vs Gibbons.

Ellis was a good fighter in the late 60's to early 70's. Unfairly known as Ali's sparring partner, Ellis won big matches vs Quarry, Martin, Patterson, Bonevenna, and Chavalo. Ellis was a good - speedy boxer. His weakness was Ellis was never big, and seemed to have trouble keeping the bigger punchers off of him.

Gibbons is severely under rated. He was only Ko'd once in 106 fights, and that happened in his last fight vs Tunney. Gibbons went the distance with a prime Dempsey. He beat name fighters on decision ( news ) such as Greb, Carpentier, and Miske. Gibbons had fast footwork, great stamina, and a tough chin. His main weakness was lack of power at heavyweight.

This fight is going to be abbreviated. I am not going to call a round by round. When two quick boxers face each other it is often a tactical and somewhat boring match. The fight itself features lots of close rounds. Neither man is hurt, or cut. The crowd boos as a chess game unfolds that does not offer much trading. Ellis does a bit better early in the fight. Gibbons does a bit better late in the fight. Ellis seems to have a bit more power, and lands the straighter shots. Gibbons shows better footwork but is a bit wider with his shots.

Only eight of the fifteen rounds seem to have a clear winner. Ellis wins five of eight clear cut rounds. The score cards seem to agree, but often have a difference in opinion on who won the other seven rounds of the fight. Some of the seven rounds in question could have been scored 10-10.

When the final bell sounds, neither guys looks like they were in a 15 round fight. The call goes to Ellis by a majority decision. Two judges had Ellis up by two points, the other called it a draw. Ellis wins a very close via majority decision.

Historical reasoning: I just felt that Ellis beat better heavyweights in general, and threw the straighter punches.

 

Folley has a Ko percentage under 50%, and as far as I can see never stopped a currently ranked top ten opponent. To say he could bang is not so, yet you laugh. Rather ignorant.

If you objectively look at Folley's record, he was Ko'd quite a bit, and dropped decisions to guys who can hit.