All Time Greats who were underachievers ...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by he grant, Jun 22, 2018.


  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,429
    9,413
    Jul 15, 2008
    We know fighters like Rocky Marciano and Joe Frazier and Evander Holyfield let it all in the ring .. they trained as hard as they could and maximized their skill sets .. then you have guys that made it great to some degree or other but could have been so much more if their activity and training eductions matched their talent.

    When I think of fighters that could have been so much more the first that always comes to mind is heavyweight legend Jack Dempsey. Dempsey had the goods. At about 6'1" he had a long reach of 77". He had terrific hand speed, terrific leg speed and movement, two handed KO power, an iron chin, exceptional recuperative powers and a killer instinct.

    Dempsey's problems started with essentially being self taught for the first half of his career till he had a brief but highly effective eighteen months or so w Jimmy DeForest which happened to coincide with his terrific run from 1918 op to Toledo. After that management let Jimmy go and Dempsey stopped developing. He never really leaned to jab his way in or cut off a ring.

    Dempsey's inactivity is legendary. After winning the title at 24 he essentially began to dissipate as a fighter. The chasm between Carpentier and Gibbons hurt him badly and the hiatus between Firpo and Tunney essentially finished him as a great fighter. The way he was abe to compete with Tunney and Sharkey as a reduced talent tells us so much more of what he might have been than many of his greatest victories ..

    There are many others out there .. open to your take ..
     
  2. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,714
    3,455
    Jan 6, 2007
    Tex Rickard had something to do with Dempsey's 20's career. Plus it was the 1920's with legends like Babe Ruth, Dempsey, Red Grange (football), etc. Those guys lived at a different level...even compared to today.

    The 1920s has been called the Golden Age of American Sports. It also has been called the Age of the Spectator. The United States had a strong economy for most of that decade. Many workers had more leisure time. New and bigger stadiums and gymnasiums were built. The introduction of radio made it easier for fans to keep up with their favorite teams. Newspapers increased their coverage of sports. Improvements in roads made it possible for fans to travel to athletic events in distant cities. For the first time, large numbers of Americans began to pay money to watch other people compete in athletic contests.

    Baseball was the “national pastime” in the 1920s. More people went to baseball games, more people followed baseball, and more people played baseball for fun than any other sport. The most famous athlete in the United States in the 1920s was baseball star George Herman “Babe” Ruth, the right fielder for the New York Yankees. The colorful Ruth hit more home runs than any player had ever hit before. He excited fans with his outgoing personality. Ruth was the perfect hero for the Roaring Twenties.

    The 1920s also was a decade when college football became more popular. Notre Dame, coached by Knute Rockne, became the most famous college football team. Illinois star Harold “Red” Grange became a household name. The best college teams could compete in bowl games, such as the famous Rose Bowl, held in California.

    Boxing was popular too. Heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey was almost as famous as Ruth. Horse racing, golf, and tennis all had their fans. College basketball was still a young sport. Professional football and basketball were minor sports."
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    Reason123 and red cobra like this.
  3. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

    16,256
    15,314
    Jun 9, 2007
    This may sound odd but for me its Duran.
    When the man trained properly he was unbelievable. Problem was he just didn't like to so we got to see some very brilliant performances but missed out on many more.
     
    Reinhardt, BCS8 and red cobra like this.
  4. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,558
    Jul 28, 2004
    Dempsey wasn't exactly endeared by the general public...he was a villain...a draft dodger to some,..a brutal ruffian...and honestly, at times he really looked the part, as in that well known footage of him sitting in his corner just prior to the Carpentier fight...with that stubble and those stone killer eyes....but that all changed after Tunney bea`t him and he uttered those words afterwards that instantly humanized him..."Honey, I forgot to duck"....
     
    BitPlayerVesti likes this.
  5. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,429
    9,413
    Jul 15, 2008
    It's not odd at all. Look at New Orleans. Look at Kirkland Laing. Robbie Simms .. the mere fact he was fighting at 160 opposed to at most 154 says a lot .. he s a terrific call ..

    Another can be Ali .. his lack of training through out his whole comeback and especially his second title reign was something .. faded and under trained he beat Frazier, Lyle, Bugner and Shavers ..
     
  6. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,578
    Jan 30, 2014
    Maybe “all time greats who could have had even more impressive careers”?
     
    BitPlayerVesti likes this.
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,579
    27,226
    Feb 15, 2006
    Perhaps the guys who drew the color bar ended up as the underachievers, at least in the eyes of history?
     
  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,578
    Jan 30, 2014
    “the all time greats who seem to have the most unfulfilled potential, despite their excellent accomplishments"?
     
    cross_trainer and Man_Machine like this.
  9. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,470
    9,485
    Oct 22, 2015
    For me Hector Camacho Sr. And no one else is close. At Superfeather he looked as unbeatable as any fighter in history. That Blow out of Bazoka Limon, is still one of the most dominant performances I've seen against very good competition. But the one shot from Rasario and he went from possibly better than Ray Robinson to what could've been.
     
    hdog and red cobra like this.
  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,429
    9,413
    Jul 15, 2008
    I’d go further. If you went from Sullivan to Marciano, how would the chain of champions flow if there was no color line?

    Jackson might have held the title from 86 thru 96 eventually losing as an older fighter to Jeffries. Johnson might have won it from Jeffries in 06. He may have lost it to Wills. There may never have been a Corbett, Fitz, Burns, Willard as champ or even a Dempsey. We have no clue.
     
    Titan1 likes this.
  11. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    Ruben Olivares, if only he trained with the intensity of a Marvin Hagler. Then again, if you take away the cheap booze, cheaper women and copious pot smoking is it still really Ruben Olivares? :lol:
     
  12. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    18,591
    29,152
    Oct 12, 2010
    James Toney. Yes, I would consider him as an ATG. Had all the talent and old school tricks but was just too inconsistent despite being so skilled. And he loved Burger King too much.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti and he grant like this.
  13. Rope-a-Dope

    Rope-a-Dope Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,138
    7,974
    Jan 20, 2015
    Jung Koo Chang kind of seems like an ATG/underachiever combo.
     
  14. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,558
    Jul 28, 2004
    Yes, Camacho was, to me, the ultimate underachiever.
     
  15. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    38,042
    7,558
    Jul 28, 2004
    Good point Russell.
     
    Russell likes this.