All-Time P-4-P Top Ten

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by D-MAC, Jul 19, 2008.


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  1. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Well, he´s one of my absolute favourites so i´m more interested where the people place him than with the most other fighters. Btw. your Tier-System made me think about all my lists again, actually it would make it a lot easier and more accurate doing such a list. :good
     
    Loewe, Jul 21, 2008
    Loewe, Jul 21, 2008
    #46
  2. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Here is my top 25 p4p
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    Minotauro, Jul 21, 2008
    Minotauro, Jul 21, 2008
    #47
  3. TIGEREDGE

    TIGEREDGE Boxing Addict Full Member

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    weres duran? a lot of people really object toi having leonard in the top 20 because of his short career
     
    TIGEREDGE, Jul 21, 2008
    TIGEREDGE, Jul 21, 2008
    #48
  4. COULDHAVEBEEN

    COULDHAVEBEEN Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Some need to get their facts straight about what P4P actually means.

    Do a web search if you have doubts, but P4P is the term used in combat sports (inc boxing) to describe a fighter's value in relation to fighters of different weight classes. It doesn’t mean that fighter has to compete in any other weight classes other than their own!

    The term became popular in the reign of world WW & MW champion Sugar Ray Robinson, who was often referred to as the P4P best, without being expected to beat much larger fighters. The belief was that Robinson as a MW was still a better QUALITY fighter than any fighter fighting at heavier or lighter weights than him. It had nothing to do with him having to lose or gain weight and campaig in heavier or lighter divisions.

    Robinson's P4P rating would have been the same if he'd only fought as a WW - provided the quality of his performance warranted it.

    Have a look at any respected boxing critic's top P4P listing and invariably there'll be HW's included who never fought in any other division.
     
    COULDHAVEBEEN, Jul 21, 2008
    COULDHAVEBEEN, Jul 21, 2008
    #49
  5. Ezzard

    Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't put HWs in. They are the top fighters and the p4p tag came in to give lighter guys their credit. Nothing to do with moving up in weights or not...

    1) Robinson
    2) Langford
    3) Greb
    4) Charles
    5) Armstrong
    6) Duran
    7) Moore
    8) Pep
    9) Tunney
    10) Saddler
     
    Ezzard, Jul 22, 2008
    Ezzard, Jul 22, 2008
    #50
  6. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In that case then all four of them struggle to get on that list IMO without their Heavyweight work.
     
    TBooze, Jul 22, 2008
    TBooze, Jul 22, 2008
    #51
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I answered that question on page 3 of this thread.

    Leonard - Okay, but I think that's silly. The length of his career is neither here nor there to me, i'm more interested in his abilities, the fights he won and the fights he lost. He beat more ATG's than most fighters with careers that are twice as long.
     
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2008
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2008
    #52
  8. darwoody

    darwoody New Member Full Member

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    Neither you or Sweetpea have a fighter on your list who began their careers in the last thirty years. What would a modern day fighter have to do to crack your list?
     
    darwoody, Jul 22, 2008
    darwoody, Jul 22, 2008
    #53
  9. arther1045

    arther1045 Member Full Member

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    If Ali was better at heavy then another fighter was at their best weight then he belongs on the list.
     
    arther1045, Jul 22, 2008
    arther1045, Jul 22, 2008
    #54
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    True, but Duran has fought this decade, Whitaker is in my top 20, Roy Jones is my #21.

    When Jones beat Ruiz I had a list and Jones was #11. That may or may not have been a bit of overexcitment, but if he'd beaten another HW contender I think he would have been in my ten - whether he would have stayed there or not, I don't know, but it's certainly possible that a win and a loss at HW before retiring would have seen Jones locked into my 10.

    Jones, if he beats Calzaghe convincingly, would be between 10 and 15. I also think that if Jones had taken Whitaker's attitude and consistantly sought to have fought the very best, he would be in there.
     
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2008
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2008
    #55
  11. darwoody

    darwoody New Member Full Member

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    May 24, 2008
    Can you see any other active fighters with the skills to make it on your list in the future? ( Jones aside)
     
    darwoody, Jul 22, 2008
    darwoody, Jul 22, 2008
    #56
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    With the skills? Oh yes, I think so. The problem is not that fighters are less skilled, the problems is the fighters have less chance to prove how skilled they are. Take Joe Calzaghe. Joe was able to operate in Wales - making a huge fortune - defending a worthless belt against average competition. When he stepped up - late - he proved he had the goods.

    But it's to late now. He's just creeping into my 100. Now, in 1950, Calzaghe would have been fighting at LHW against the very best in the world from around the age of 24. If he won the majority of his matches he's all time top 30. If he steps up to HW at some point and makes somethng amazing happen he is arguing with the best of all time.

    Nowadays there are 10 belts and more across two divisions where around the weight Calzaghe fights. A fighter can fight nobodies for 10 years and then start talking about a legacy. Bull and ****.

    I think this is why classic forum posters are so excited about Pavlik. Here is a guy who will fight anybody his people tells him to...we'll see.
     
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2008
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2008
    #57
  13. darwoody

    darwoody New Member Full Member

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    May 24, 2008
    Thats what I thought. Its hard for a fighter nowadays to compete H2H with the guys from the past because of the reasons you stated, plus the promoters are culpable. Wirh Pavlik I dont think its anything new for a fighter to want to fight the best, but they dont always call the shots.
     
    darwoody, Jul 22, 2008
    darwoody, Jul 22, 2008
    #58
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, I agree, and Pavlik will basically fight who his people tell him to fight I think.
     
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2008
    McGrain, Jul 22, 2008
    #59
  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Who was Tyson's best win again? They aren't comparable. Irrespective of Rooney excuses history shows us when the going was toughest Ali rose and Tyson fell. Yes Tyson burnt out a bit early but that only goes against him.

    So a loss gets him a P4P ranking?
     
    JohnThomas1, Jul 22, 2008
    JohnThomas1, Jul 22, 2008
    #60
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