All time top 20 lists?

You've posted some commendable stuff on here mate, but that list is terrible. Even to my limited eye.

 

:huh Id like to hear your opinions! I feel that i can give you a good argument on any of the guys i have here. Remember most of these greats can arguably be replaced by another. I have also got B. Leonard,Walker,Holmes,Jofre,Johnson,Hearns,Burley,Napoloes and believe it or not OSCAR that are right outside this list.

 

Bottom line you cant discount the ATG og the last 30 years, who obviously show skills that a lot of the old timers didnt show. Im not exactly a youngster either so get that out of your head.

 

If Pac ,May were to retire today they might make this list, maybe Jones and Hopkins would be on the borderline but jus outside this list

 

Do you guys think Pac,May,Jones ,Hopkins make this list if they were to retire today? If so where would you put them?

 

No! None of them did enough to be a Top20 nominee. Hopkins and Jones not even Top30 for me. Pac maybe Top25. when he beats Cotto this would be cemented.

Yeah, they maybe have shown more skill but they lack the resume to back it up compared to the oldtimers. Resume and achievement should be the main points when you make such a list because these are largely objective. Personally I include longevity too as a first tier argument for jusging a fighter. Highly speculative arguments like h2h, skill-level, intangibles are only second tier.

 

Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Sam Langford
Ezzard Charles
Roberto Duran
Bob Fitzsimmons
Benny Leonard
Muhammad Ali
Willie Pep
Barney Ross
Ray Leonard
Archie Moore
Tony Canzoneri
Jimmy McLarnin
Barbados Joe Walcott
Mickey Walker
Pernell Whitaker
Carlos Monzon
Joe Louis

 

then the same thing could apply to the heavyweights right?

heres my list

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Duran
5. Joe Walcott
6. Leonard
7. JCC
8. Benny Leonard
9. Willie Pep
10. Whitaker
11. Archie Moore
12. Sal Sanchez
13. Pernell Whitaker
14. Gene Tunney
15. Barney Ross
16. Joe Louis
17. Alexis Arguello
18. RJJ
19. Rocky Marciano
20. Hagler

 

Never did a top 20 list & my top 10 is full of men that Ive seen reasonable footage of, I`ll give a go, no exact order but in a rough order.....

Ray Robinson
Muhammad Ali
Willie Pep
Henry Armstrong
Roberto Duran
Ray Leonard
Joe Louis
Julio cesar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker
Roy Jones
Thomas Hearns
Floyd Mayweather
Marvin Hagler
Alexis Arguello
Larry Holmes
Ricardo Lopez
Salvador Sanchez
Carlos Monzon
Manny Pacquiao
Wilfredo Gomez

Ps. That list was off the top of my head, I dont expect ANYONE to applaud this list but feel free to kick the **** out of it, its why we`re here.

:good

 

Not only do I rate Barrera above Lopez, but Morales also. Lopez ain't no top 20 fighter.

Manny. Not at all, he'll be a top 35 entry if he manages to dethrone Miguel Cotto in 12 days.

Floyd Mayweather Jr. best wins being De La Hoya, Corrales, and Hatton. Top 20, are you sure? More like top 50.

Jones Jr? I'd rate Michael Spinks higher, who beat better opposition at 175lbs and Heavyweight. On paper it may look like he clearly out-boxed prime Hopkins, he clearly out-boxed green Hopkins who hadn't fought anyone. I don't rate Jones as high as most, he'd be top 40.

I don't agree with Holmes or Sanchez either.

 

You don't think there have been 20 fighters from the televised era that have far stronger and deeper resumes than Mayweather?? There have been at least 40, at the very least. Unjustifiable. And placing him above Monzon, Arguello and Hagler (even in a 'rough' list) is just absurd. It's almost as silly as having Chavez over Whitaker - another decision which has no legitimate justification.

Also, if you are sticking to fighters from the televised era only, have you never seen footage of Jose Napoles? Ruben Olivares? Both are better than Lopez, Mayweather and Pacquiao.

 

You're such a poser.

 

I'm not forgetting anything, Riko. The best win of his career came at Middleweight against James Toney. Even with campaigning in more weight divisions, I don't think Jones did enough to overthrow Spinks, a guy who emerged as the best in an extremely competitive LHW division. Could you imagine Jones Jr moving up and beating Holmes? It wouldn't happen.

 

The Toney win was at supermiddle, where Jones really was at the peak of his physical and skilful powers IMO. Sadly, there wasn't sufficient competition (neither in high-profile terms or quality terms) to justify him hanging around there and becoming a dominant, long-reigning champion.

I'm stuck between you and Riko on this one. I agree that Spinks's lhw+hw exploits easily trump Jones's, but I still think Jones has a case to be made for being higher p4p because of his exploits in another 2 separate weight classes.

It's a close call. I'm comfortable with anyone having either man ahead of the other.

 

That's fine, Popkins.

Here's a point though. What 175lbs fighter besides Tarver that Jones fought would have even held a title during Spinks' day? Want my opinion? I don't think any of them would, and that's why I don't think Jones' work at other weight divisions is enough to give him the nod. His work at Light Heavyweight, when you forget all about titles, really isn't all that impressive. Glen Kelly? A 100 year old McCullum? Gonzalez? It's actually Jones' work at the other weights that even make it debatable for me.