Alt History: What If?

I wonder how the boxing world champ wise would look if Corbett said hey John lets fight with these mitten things and Sullivan said, no, Real Men fight with bare fist, and I am not going to put on those wimpy gloves. So they fight bare fist and glove boxing never catches on, Would Rocky Marciano still be champ even though he cant toss 100 punches a round?? How would Ali do in barekuck fights to the finish fights?? Would Foreman just get tired out by more guys who would just flop down if they think a big hit is coming their way??

 

Great questions. Having the boxing IQ that he did, I “think” Ali might’ve had a better handle than most re Foreman’s abilities and the degree of threat that he posed.

Ali was shocked by Norton but Ken’s profile at that point was a lot less than Foreman’s - Ali being a lot less informed on Ken.

Still, Foreman’s destruction of common opponents Frazier and Norton was yet to come - and those victories added a LOT to the heed that was ultimately afforded(by Ali and everyone else) to Foreman

So yeah, Ali might well have still been taken by surprise by Foreman - but for mine, Frazier himself woefully underestimated George relative to the evidence already in on Foreman as at the time.

 

Going that far back might get a huge alternative effect from the flapping of those bare knuckle butterfly wings.

I don’t think Ali would even participate - far too much more likely damage to that pretty face of his.

That’s part of the reason Ali showed relative disdain toward body punching - to avert the greater likelihood of getting punched in the head.

I like the flopping on Foreman - a very real practice back in the day. Maybe call it the Flop-A-Dope.

“Bruce Seldon” it at the slightest hint of any heavy punch coming your way.

Who cares if you had 20 KDs ruled against you after only 8 rounds.

By then, George might well be “ready to fall” anyway. Lol.

 

People forget the round ends when a knockdown happens, either from a toss, a real knockdown or a flop. When Seldon went down vs Tyson, had that be under the old rules, he have a min to get ready for round 2 lol.

 

Good point.

Without knowing the actual duration, Foreman could perhaps easily last into the 20th round with Seldon repeatedly flopping.- and then George’s first career stamina might not be so heavily criticised. Lol.


Yeah, for ****s and giggles one time I divided the duration of the Sullivan v Kilrain fight by the amount of rounds - can’t remember exactly but it was something like an average of 1 1/2 mins per round.

Still a very long fight - just not quite as long as some might believe if they’re thinking a standard 3 min round.

 

Two of the craziest alt history scenarios I could think of would be Jeffries beating Johnson and reclaiming the belt for the white race, and Schmeling reclaiming the belt and bringing it back to Germany in the Louis rematch. I'm interested in the social outcomes of such events, especially on how the US boxing commissions would handle Schmeling as champion.

 

Well it really depends how long the 2 went at it in the rounds, I do think they fought a about 3 or so hours but rounds where not 3 mins as we know em today. When a down happen, it signals the end of the round. It was a real brutal fight still, with Sullivan coming on top after 75 "Rounds". Most of these barekuck fights ended when fighter yield to the other guy or failed to come to "Scratch" for the next round. I do know the 4th round lasted about 15 mins,

 

Yeah, that was my point - the duration divided by the rounds to calculate an average. I forgot to mention that I also allowed for the due breaks between rounds.

Some rounds might’ve lasted less than a min. before a KD or a takedown was executed - but of course, with other rounds exceeding 3 mins. So the 4th round equated to the duration of 5 x 3 min rounds, and without any rest periods - that’s good info.

Yep, (not) up to scratch or toeing the line - phrases often used in modern language to mean being either sufficient or adequate - OR not so, depending on how it’s prefaced.

 

Louis himself considered Schmeling the champ at this point and boxerlist says NYSAC and the NBA considered Schmelings fights with Foord and Dudas title fights. In our timeline Braddocks upset over Max Baer with Braddock sitting out 2 years led to a bit of ambuigity in the world title that didn't go away entirely until Louis beat Schmeling.

In your scenario where Schmeling takes the belt back to Germany the big issue is WW2 is going to start in 1939 and non Europeans would not have had access to the lineal title if the belt was not taken back within the next year. US boxing commissions would have inevitably have commissioned a new belt which Louis would have almost certainly won. The holders of both belts would have fought sometime after WW2.

In the Jeffries scenario Jeffries retires and 2 other fighters fight for the title.

In your side scenario Ali might have gotten a rematch with Foreman he might not have gotten one as obviously Foreman did not get the rematch he so clearly deserved in our timeline. Theres no reason he wouldn't have remained a top 2-3 HW for several years though.

 

Foreman is my GOAT and I consider the Thriller in Manilla to be a fluke. I'd take Ali to survive longer than Frazier just because of size but Foreman would win by KO.

 

Ali still beats Foreman after getting rocked once or twice along the way. Obviously an Ali victory would come with less fanfare than the one that their real fight had.

Had Muhammad lost in Zaire,he would have retired.

 

Let's imagine if Muhammad Ali retired after beating George Foreman in Zaire? Would George have got himself together mentally quicker than he did in reality - knowing he would n't have had to face Muhammad again - or would he still have gone AWOL throughout 1975?