Am I crazy or did Toney whip Jirov?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Trixie, Sep 26, 2010.


  1. Trixie

    Trixie Active Member Full Member

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    I apologise if I'm completely wrong here, and if I am I'm sure you guys will tell me, but after re-watching Toney-Jirov just now I kind of feel, as Mugatu did in Zoolander, like I'm "taking crazy pills". First of all Harold Lederman is calling the fight a draw, but I already knew he was terrible - his scoring of Mayweather/Hatton the final nail in the coffin for him in my eyes - but then after Toney is announced the winner, I hear Jim Lampley exclaim that many ringside are yelling (Lou Duva among them), "What fight were you watching?" to the judges.

    Now, Lederman I don't care about, but Duva I had considered one of the greats and that got me thinking, because I, like the judges, scored the fight conclusively for Toney. Maybe 117-109 was a bit wide, but it is definitely a comfortable win, in my opinion. Jirov applies all of the pressure, sure, and Toney doesn't go out to "win" the fight (as is the topic of another debate on this forum), but I just cannot see how you can fail to award Toney rounds when he consistently lands the heavier, crisper, more accurate, and more effective punches.

    Perhaps this makes me a Toney-nut hugger, which I certainly might be. I just feel that too often contemporary commentators mistake walking forward to ring generalship, and credit guys for applying pressure even if they're taking 3 shots to 1 as they do so.
     
  2. Johnstown

    Johnstown Boxing Addict banned

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    ledderman did have hatton ahead by the end of the fight though right? and i could see how you could give hatton the early rounds based on agression..even if he really wasnt landing effectivly....as for the Jirov fight...i dont know..as i recall Jirov was ahead until the later rounds...but i only watched it once when it was live.
     
  3. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I score fights based on counting knockdowns taking fouls into account , and then consider times when one had the other in trouble or clearly hurt . Then I always thought the one coming forward should be credited for it , especially if he also outworks the other / throwing punches / making the fight happen.
    But it is only me.

    I watched this fight at least 4 or 5 times , although not in the last two months or so , and I think that if you count rounds Jirov won more rounds .
    However , the knockdown counts and was clean and for me , and only for me has additional value . But then again it is only me.
    Call me a Toney hater but Toney in no way deserved to win this fight that big on the scorecards , I could understand a draw or even a close decision in favor of Jirov if you use the usual (not mine) scoring system .
    But the award of the decision in favor of Toney is probably the justest outcome , although not by such a big margin.
     
  4. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    I had Toney only pulling it out with the final round. I thought it was a very close fight.
     
  5. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Aggressiveness has to be effective. Toney won by wide margin.
     
  6. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I think he won by a good few rounds. Like you said, crisper, cleaner, more effective punches. Being backed up shouldn't lose points if you're scoring better than the other guy with your punches.
     
  7. Godfather

    Godfather I put the G in God Full Member

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    I had it 118-109. Toney landed clean effective punches throughout and Jirov landed hardly anything.
     
  8. horst

    horst Guest

    I had Toney a clear winner, by around 3 or 4 points. I couldn't score it any wider than that because Jirov did win a few of the middle rounds for sure.
     
  9. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    I can't remember exactly how I scored the fight originally but I had Toney winning comfortably.
     
  10. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Toney won although the fight was close and competitive. It was interesting how Toney broke a very determined Jirov's will at the end of that fight and knocked him down. Jirov did all he could do, he was just eventually outclassed by the better fighter.
     
  11. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

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    I had Toney winning by a large margin as well, Jirov was completely ineffective.
     
  12. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    I thought it was close. I think I had Toney up by 2 points at the end. Jirov did very well thru the first 2/3 of the fight IMO.
     
  13. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    Toney won but that score is insane IMO. Many of the rounds were close and could have went either way... it looks like you gave Toney all of these rounds, why? Toney did very well the last 2-3 rounds but what about the rest of the fight? They both fought well and both deserve credit, why give Toney all of the questionable rounds?

    Good fight regardless and Toney should have hung around a bit longer at CW.
     
  14. Godfather

    Godfather I put the G in God Full Member

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    Jirov's work was ineffective. He threw light punches that had no effect on Toney. JT was in complete control of the fight and landed at will. Jirov plodded forward, leaned up against Toney on the ropes, failed to land anything decent all fight and had the **** countered out of him. If you score for clean, effective punching the fight wasn't even close.

    Even in rounds where Toney didn't throw much, he still landed the significantly better shots.
     
  15. eslubin

    eslubin Active Member Full Member

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    Toney threw 70 punches a round and landed 30. not even close.
    the end