Am I the only one in the Classic Section who believes Mosley will school Mayweather?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rumsfeld, Apr 11, 2010.


  1. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay, got most of my thoughts down. Would be curious to hear some thoughts from you and others.

    :good

    CLICK HERE TO READ
     
  2. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    The only way i can see Mosley winning this fight at this stage of his career is by knockout,if it goes to a decision he will be the clear loser.
     
  3. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Contrary to what you believe Rummy, Margo was 100% tailor made for Mosley. Come on, it was two brawler's pitted against one another, yet one was far quicker, far more skilled, more powerful, more dynamic, more experienced, better defensively, smarter and equally as durable.
     
  4. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Then why did Margo beat Cotto when Mosley failed?
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He was cheating.

    I don't have proof of this, but that is my opinion and my answer to your question.





    Rummy, it's a decent article and you make a good case. I think you will turn a couple of heads. I do disagree with you.

    What kind of work-rate do you see Mosley empoying?
     
  6. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Because Cotto was fighting too much on the defensive while have significant cracks in his defensive game, (hands parted down the middle, going from one set of ropes to another, refusing to clinch or otherwise break up Margarito's rhythm, etc.) and Margarito, who is a volume puncher unlike Shane, had the style to keep working on those flaws and keep working on them until it slowly ground Cotto down.

    And, you know, Margarito was probably cheating.
     
  7. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Margarito has more volume, but then Mosley is apparently "quicker, more accurate, more powerful, more dynamic" - but Cotto could both defend better against him and handle what Mosley did get in better?

    Perhaps the "cheating" explanation isn't so bad after all.
     
  8. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    There is a big possibility that he cheated in doing so for one. He tries to use hardened wraps against a perceived past-prime Mosley who he is heavily favoured to beat, but not against a primed, unbeaten champion who he's an underdog against?

    Secondly, Margarito's constant pressure paid off. He won that fight in the latter rounds after Cotto tired. The fight was not nearly as close as Cotto-Mosley was after 6-7 rounds. Mosley did not put the same level of pressure on Cotto, he did in spurts, but at times he was moving around Cotto looking to pick his punches, watch rounds 6-8 in particular.
     
  9. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Cotto folded under the pressure. Mosley didn't nearly put on the same type of pressure and punch-volume that Margo did. What is the point of this? Are you seriously going to argue that Margo is quicker and more skilled than Shane Mosley, or can we cut the bull**** and admit that Shane had all the advantages?
     
  10. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Normally Shane is quicker, but especially when he tired a bit in the mid rounds and last two against Cotto, he was telegraphing his punches badly during the time when he was loading up his shots and seldom throwing more a few at a time. Because of those factors and Shane committing much more to his punches, (sometimes over committing) it made it much easier for Cotto to counter or avoid Shane while backpedaling.

    Most of the time in the fight with Mosley Cotto could wait for Mosley to throw one or two, then seize an opportunity to respond or counter, or throw Mosley off rhythm by backing up then suddenly coming forward with a jab or right. Mosley, like most fighters, would respond by stopping, resetting, then looking to come forward again (after several seconds had passed) or have to back up and then look to engage once again.

    Cotto couldn't do that to Margarito. Margarito didn't care what Cotto responded with, he never stopped throwing, stopped being in Cotto's face, and he almost never let Cotto put him out of an offensive, come forward posture. As a result, Cotto had to either accept some punishment to get shots off or had to avoid punches before, during, and after responding to Margarito's aggression. That's both a mentally and physically wearing process.

    Bah, I'm probably babbling and talking out of my ass here by relying on memory, but after a sleepless night I'm too tired to go to the footage right now and look at it for a better, more in-depth breakdown. Hopefully my memory isn't too far off from the actual footage.
     
  11. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Then why weren't people pegging Mosley in a one-sided victory before the fight?

    I stand by my main point in the context of this discussion:

    The most important thing we learned from the Margarito fight is that Mosley was rejuvenated under the guidance of Richardson.

    Floyd fans are too quick to dismiss this effort.

    Personally, I think Jack Mosley was always a bad corner man. Sure, he was okay when things were going Shane's way but whenever times got rough, Jack had no idea what the **** to do.

    Mosley is the type of fighter with a lot of tools who responds well to good instruction.

    Under Nazim, he is finally getting that.

    Put it this way:

    If Jack Mosley was in Shane's corner for the Margarito fight, I wonder if Shane would have even won let alone stopped Margo.

    Again, the majority of people were picking Margo to win handily and many were evn pegging him to stop Shane inside the distance.
     
  12. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I agree with you 100%. I think Jack Mosley was a horrible trainer for his son. He really had no strategy going into fights and it was obvious by his corner instructions. Richardson does provide this for Shane, and thats one of the reasons I think Shane, although past his physical peak is probably just as good as he was, as a fighter, because now he will be going into his fights with solid help.
    That being said, Mayweather is a whole different animal, and Mosley has had difficulties with every technically sound fighter hes faced, so it will be interesting to see how Richardson guides him once boxing doesnt work. Ive watched Mayweather alot and like all counterpunchers, Ive noticed that FLoyd is most susceptible to being caught when hes forced to lead, and Im sure Richardson sees the same thing, and is going to have Mosley holding back in the early rounds, but I see the tides changing mid fight and Mosley being forced to push the fight later and Mayweather stopping him sometime in the second half of the fight.
    Personally Id like Mosley to stop Floyd early. His mouth and persona needs a serious reality check. Unfortunately Floyd is better than most give him credit for, and the truly great fighters produce their best performances in fights of this magnitude and now Floyd's size is physically on par with all the welterweights so I dont see him getting muscled around by Mosley like most expect.
     
  13. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Because most believed Shane was done, including me I must admit, and doubted whether he could implement his advantages. He did, and credit to him for that, and yes he is rejuvenated. Doesn't stop the fact he still has a lot of stylistic disadvantages to overcome in order to beat Mayweather.

    My opinion in simple terms is that Mosley either ups his work-rate, continually gets countered and tires himself out, or he lowers his work-rate, tries to pick his punches and gets boxed silly.
     
  14. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    See, this is what I mean.

    You called me out (respectfully :good) saying that Margarito WAS tailor made for Mosley and then you admit you thought Shane was done and would lose.

    Is that not revealing of my point?

    I really don't see it.

    I really see Floyd as the one having disadvantages he needs to overcome in this one. I see Shane giving Floyd problems like Winky gave Shane problems.

    I have been wrong before and I could be wrong on this one, but I would be very surprised if Shane does not dominate the action in this one.

    I have a pretty good history of picking on these two.

    I never picked against Floyd before this (ever) and I am usually right on Mosley's fights. I had bet money on Forrest the first time he fought Shane, and I knew Winky was going to be hell for him.

    I was wrong on Mosley-Cotto and as I stated in my write-up, this is the most troublesome aspect of my argument.

    However, I think Jack Mosley sucked that night. To reiterate, Shane is a great student but a student is only as good as his teacher.

    Many of the tactical flaws we have seen in Shane, I believe, stems from poor preparation, bad strategy, and having a know-nothing corner.

    Put it this way....

    ****If my reasons for Mosley looking bad against Cotto are wrong (and I honestly believe they are entirely on point), then my whole argument collapses and everything I'm banking on could backfire.

    But if I'm wrong about this, I seriously doubt Shane would have beaten Margarito, let alone dominated him.

    I think this depends on the presupposition that Floyd will be in his comfort zone. I do not believe this will be the case.

    If Oscar can outbox Floyd through six, and if Judah can stun him and have his moments, then this HUNGRY version of Shane can emmulate what worked for each of these two and improve the blue print.

    I maintain that as good as he is, Floyd does not have the size and strength to tame Mosley and transform him into a lumbering slouch incapable of hitting him for a full twelve.

    Floyd's foot work is key, and that will be difficult for Mosley to overcome at times, but in the end....

    I think this comes down to hunger. Who wants it more?

    Shane has always exhibited the heart of a champion. Floyd, not so much. Mayweather has never really had a tough test at welterweight. Two wins against guys who were too small, one win against a guy who was a glorified journeyman, and one fight against an A-level talent with no ring intelligence.

    I'm not impressed with his welterweight resume. Not at all!

    This doesn't mean I don't think he's no an exceptionally gifted fighter. But he's NOT HUNGRY.

    He's a delusional narcissist.

    Mosley has always wanted to prove himself against the best.

    To this date, we still don't really know how Floyd will perform against an elite welter. Pacquiao has already fought two more elite welters than Floyd and Mosley has fought many more.

    At the end of the day, SIZE will matter and Mosley will bully the smaller Mayweather.
     
  15. warrior85

    warrior85 R.I.P THUNDER Full Member

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    shane can win this fight,but if he does it'll be close.i hope he does.