Am I the only one that thinks Young would always have Foreman's number?

Yeah... I'll buy that.....bbb

MR.BILL:hat

 

Be fair Redrooster. Ali was over the hill and overweight when he laced 'em up with Jimmy. The Ali of even two years earlier would have won by a greater margin. Still over the distance,though.

 

The Foreman of Kingston - Zaire (inclusive) would have beaten Young. He'd still have had a hard time of doing so,but he'd have eventually caught up with Jimmy by round ten.

 

I remember seeing the Gardner fight. Jimmy looked really good,and this was the over the hill Young. He declined alarmingly quickly after his fight with Ken Norton. Loss of motivation,I guess.

 

Foreman was ill advised tactically for the Young fight. He also should have flown to Puerto Rico a lot earlier. This is not to take anything away from Jimmy who fought a very intelligent fight.

 

Firstly, I think we're giving Gil Clancy a bit of stick here he doesn't deserve. I remember reading a full account at the time of this bout where Gil described how he was steering George away from the heavy bag, that he expplained to George how, "you're always going to have the punch, we have to work on the skills." Clancy had him doing primarily speedbag and Clancy didn't actually think much of the speedbag but he wanted him to work on stamina. However, George didn't like this approach and brought in a 'sub-trainer' who had him work solely on heavybag again. Clancy stated how he stood by helplessly watching George's muscles grow bigger and bigger and it was the same old George with no stamina who entered the ring that night against Young.

Secondly, I take Foreman and primarily Dick Sadler to task for learning absolutely nothing in boxing. There wasn't many styles that could work against George, he was a wrecking ball. But Ali showed that a smart fighter who had defensive skills, who could take a punch, who was elusive and could box and counter-punch could beat George Foreman. Now, who else do we know that could emulate that style? Jimmy Young. There was 3 years between the Ali fight and the Young fight. George proved he picked up nothing in that time. He only had one technique. Swing those lumbering arms until the other fighter falls, invariably in the first 3 rounds. That technique held him in good stead throught 98% of his opponents. But when set upon by someone with "the style", he had no plan B, he simply pursued what was taught to him by Sadler. Swing those arms until he falls. If he doesn't fall, keep swinging and keep going deeper and deeper into the pool until you have nothing left and you drown. Isn't that what happened in the Ali and Young fights? Did we not all see he was exhausted by the 5th round against Ali? Same with Young. It was the "style" that had George's number and only two fighters out there at the time could initiate it.

Scartissue

 

Foreman would have been gassed by the 10th from missing all those haymakers he would have been throwing.

 

I kinda agree with the "Young had Foreman's" number, but I also read about Foreman saying he had to "have a crappy appearance for Ali to pickup on a rematch". Foreman planned to look bad and eek out a KO, but instead that never happened and Young came in at top form.

Now, I'm aware Foreman says a lot of things. Look at the list of excuses he put out about losing to Ali. Maybe it's just one circus act to keep the crowd guessing and questioning the truth of the moment.

Anybody else remember hearing about Foreman saying this? That he needed to look bad against Young and get an ugly victory to trick Ali into a rematch.

 

Foreman, by his own account, allowed that fight to get out of hand.
The heat and tactics just were not helping George at all that night.
Another night and George stops Young.

 

I think Foreman was a bit lethargic that night, and could possibly have done better on another night, and had the tools and raw power to stop Young.
But Young's win was no fluke either. I wouldn't say he has Foreman's number all the time, but he's a nightmare opponent for George, who would have done well to avoid him altogether.

Hypothetically : If they fought 5 times, Young might still have won 3 or 4. Alternatively he might have lost 4, but I doubt Foreman could KO him 4 times.

Overall, I'd say Foreman's the better fighter, Young was the better boxer. And George had obvious limitations and obvious strength in quite an extreme way for an ATG.

 

:good

 

Scartissue, well wrote out Post. Where I don't see eye to eye with ya is that Sadler knew George's limits and worked with them, as seen in the Norton and Frazier go's you have a wider stance thats balanced to let George throw his punches correctly, and let him step in and put his weight behind his jab and right hands. Never one for defense this did however have George bring his hands back properly to be in the best position to block some punches. Under Gil's "teaching skills" in the entire Lyle bout he never showed any of what Sadler worked on him with and from head to foot was undisiplined and this continued with Dino Dennis and into the Young go-feet ill placed and to close together, punches thrown incorrectly, no stepping into any of his punches as before, the jab now just an arm punch and not landing. Gil either couldn't influence George or didn't know how to work with someone built like him. The speed bag doesn't do much for stamina and wouldn't have helped in any of the other areas either.

 

I agree. I have always been of the opinion that George is horrendously overrated as a fighter for several key reasons (ie his celebrity status and big personality, his big punch, the fact that he took part in the historical/cultural mega-event in Zaire, and the fact that he had the Indian sign over one particular great heavyweight in Joe Frazier). He was not a great fighter in my eyes.