American Elite Level

im an american .. id have to diagree with you on a few things 1 being i do belive the pool of talent here is deeper ... but i think non american fighter or just as good as american but dont get alot of exposure or they refuse to leave there country ala Joe C.... an thats what makes most people mad but IMO it doesnt matter where your from wat color or ne thing its just hard work an dedication

 

What im trying to pioint out is, if Soviets had been able to fight in the past, and the Mob hadnt had monopoly on the belt then the past WBC holders list would look alot different.

 

But really why should he leave? Stay at home fight the best the US had to offer 'Lacy', the best Europe had to offer 'Kessler' infront of 50,000 or go to the US beat on aload of over-hyped bums like Dawson infront of 10-18k?

 

Primo Carnera, a mob-controlled HW champion, defended his title in Spain against a non-American. Joe Louis defended the hw title against fighters not from the U.S. such as Tommy Farr, Max Schmeling, and Arturo Godoy. Floyd Patterson defended the HW title against Europeans such as Brian London and Ingemar Johannson.

Mob rule in boxing more or less dissolved in the early 60s after the IBC dissolved and Frankie Carbo was incarcarated.

The mafia had nowhere near the strangehold on boxing as it had in the past and did not control much.

The rise of the East Europeans in the heavyweight division has to do with them actually being able to compete professionally rather than the Mob.

If they had been allowed to compete professionally post IBC/Norris-era and pre-1990s, there would have been more successful East Europeans in boxing. The Mafia had nothing to do with that.

 

I think you nailed it on the head. I also think people forget just how big the United States really is. It is a massive country and most Americans will never see a great percentage of the country.

 

its not that big! Canada (not including Alaska), India, Russia, China, are all bigger. I bet more than 10% of Canadians have passports.

 

WHU, with all due respect comparing the MEN arena to MSG is completely absurd. Yes, Hatton can draw a lot of fan their which probably makes for an electric atmosphere, but in reguards to tradition, history, and fighters their is nocomprison. Why would a fighter not want to fight MSG?

 

:happy :good :thumbsup

 

I agree for the most part...The thing is, Calzaghe has been big enough for a few years already to have come to the USA to fight. Now, I am not saying he has to, and I don't fault him if he doesn't. JC has the right to fight who he wents, where he wants, in whatever weight class he wants.

But, I have the right to not feel as though he has proven himself to the degree that other fighters have. I agree that the 0 in boxers records is largely irrelevant given the greatness many champions with 5 or 10 losses. I respect the risks...DLH going from 130-160 was a huge risk. Talk **** if you want, but he stepped up, and he fights BIG FIGHTS. Mosley got beaten up by Forrest, and immediately rematched him...He got beaten by Wright, and immediately rematched him. I respect that.

If RJJ stayed at 168, would he have been regarded as being as great as he is? If James Toney didn't eat himself out of 168, would he have gotten the same respect? If Duran just dominated 135, would he have been the same? I don't think so...It was the RISKS and the BIG FIGHT mentality that made these fighters great...So far, JC hasn't done much of either...

 

Without getting too into this post (I leave for work in about 15 mins)...I think you are taking a very "rose colored glass" outlook on this. In other words, you may be able to see clearly from one side, but you fail to see the other side of the arguement.

Again, I will get into this in alot more detail when I get home from work, but to keep it simple, the very crux of your rant/problem/question could easily be flipped from the opposite angle. There is a much larger % of non-US posters on this very site that dismiss any US fighter as hype...that build their own fighter up to ridiculously lofty standards (anyone remember CHJ's post about Calzaghe's resume and skills being on par with SRR's???)...its natural to root for the hometown guy.

I myself am a fan of the sport first, fighters second. Joe Calzaghe is one of my favorite all time fighters....and was so, LONG BEFORE the Lacy/Kessler wins. Nationality should NEVER be part of an arguement about a fighters skills and greatness....skills and greatness should be the end all, be all of that conversation. But even yourself are guilty of this outlook (comparing the Kessler and Lacy wins as favorable or even with Hopkins biggest wins...which is FAR from reality).

The words Americanized and American bias are thrown out on this site much more than the other way around is. If you open your eyes to it, you will realize just how off your post was (tho I do admit there is a large amount of american posters who are guilty of it....but your basing the majority on the minority).

Again, I am out the door as I type this, but I will be back later to add more clarity to this subject (as I KNOW, plenty of posters will agree and disagree with me here).

 

Many times, you make more fighting in the USA in front of 10,000 people then you would in Europe in front of 50,000 people.

Besides, maybe JC would get more respect if he won on someone else's turf, while being booed, instead of being cheered...just a thought.

 

I've been reading the forum here for years and this is my first response. Most of the americans on this site are jack assess. Don't judge all of us from what you read on the forum. I believe European countries are smaller and closer that is why they have more passports. Some americans are just ignorant and don't see the need to travel regardless of what your country has or doesn't have. Fighters from all over the world can be great and I personally enjoy watching how the european and american styles match up. As far as non-americans being inferior in our minds I don't think thats true to the real boxing fans here. It's just hard to get excited against someone you don't see on live tv. This may or may not be true but I think our talent has been a little deeper especially in the past. We're not too trusting of a foreign fighter that has never fought outside of a small country for their entire career until we see them match up to a fighter we are familiar with. Fight like Calzage v Lacy just help to make more educated assessment of a world wide sport. By the way, Lacy is hardly the best we have to offer.