American super middleweights of the last 10 years and some questions

He is being rated so high after having been successful (reasonably) as a lhw.

Johnson is one of those oddball cases of a guy whose career was done and he returned a better fighter.

He lost a ton of fights in the late 90's early 00's. Before that he had feasted on soft comp and then got KO'd by Hopkins. That was the beginning of the string of losses.

He still loses plenty, but he has been a handful for anyone he fights....despite moving up in weight and class of opposition. He is not elite, but the guy comes to fight and takes all comers.

 

fantastic post, it clearly illustrates the narrow minded ignorance of popkins rating chad dawson as p4p number 3 in his last rankings as shown below






My Pound-For-Pound Top Ten (1st August 2010)
1.

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Why?
He is the man in possession, the king on the throne. As the second-placed fighter is in the same division as the kingpin, the only way he can take this crown is in the ring, and to do that Floyd will have to actually man up, so Pac is safe at number 1 for the foreseeable future. Manny has barely lost a round over the last two years, and is now dominating and decimating men far naturally larger than himself - the definition of a pound-for-pound legend.


2.

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Why?
The only choice for number 2, Floyd joins Pacquiao in a league of two far above the best of the rest. Mayweather beat the far smaller Marquez with ease in a routine (and some would argue pointless and unfair) tune-up, but in his next fight he produced the goods big-time vs Mosley. Shook to his boots twice early on, Floyd showed his pound-for-pound star quality by winning every round thereafter. The pressure is now on for him to step up and try to reclaim his former position as number 1. The world continues to wait.

3.

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Why?
I realize this may be an unexpected and unpopular choice, but I think Dawson's accomplishments are underrated on the whole. To have beaten Tomasz Adamek as well as Glen Johnson twice, whilst establishing himself as the clear number 1 in the light-heavyweight division, is no mean feat for a young fighter - and anyone doubting the value of the Johnson wins need only see how Johnson turned away top 10 ranked Yusaf Mack in his most recent fight. Dawson has been at the top of his division for a few years now, has beaten the best of the generation before him, and is now taking on the toughest opponent available in Jean Pascal.

4.

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Why?
As many on ESB know, I am no fan of Wladimir, not by a long shot. However, even though I find him the most boring boxer of all-time, this does not blind me to his merits. I find it very strange that The Ring continues to ignore someone as dominant as he is. Wladimir is on a long unbeaten streak of dominant victories, and although the standard of opposition has not been great, it is not possible to fight consistently strong comp in a division as weak as heavyweight (especially when a good fighter like Povetkin inexplicably and in my opinion unforgivably shirks out of mandatory challenger status). I do not like Wlad as a boxer, and I do not like the heavyweight division, but a champion this dominant cannot be overlooked when it comes to pound-for-pound standings.

5.

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Why?
Martinez is a strange one in terms of pound-for-pound recognition. It wasn't long ago that he was fighting dire competition in small hall fights, and was a million miles away from mixing in this sort of company, but (depending on your personal perspective on the outcomes of some of his recent fights) his last three performances were pretty special. For me he clearly deserved a win vs Cintron, and I scored the Martinez-Williams fight to Maravila. A win over Williams is significant, as the Punisher is himself a legitimate pound-for-pound contender. The major scalp on his record is Kelly Pavlik though, what a win. Martinez, a natural lightmiddle weighing 167lbs on the night, vs Pavlik, middleweight KO specialist who was 178 in the ring, and Martinez turned in a supreme display to thoroughly deserve the verdict - and in my opinion to thoroughly deserve the #5 spot.

6.

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Why?
This is another choice which I'm sure many people will disagree with, but pound-for-pound talents are extremely rare in this era, there really aren't many strong candidates, and I think the Super Six leader and favourite deserves some recognition at this point. Although I personally prefer Andre Dirrell as a fighter, Ward is the one who is looking more complete and confident at this stage. To win every minute of every round in a high stakes fight vs Green was superb, and Ward almost shut out Edison Miranda as well. Of course, his greatest win was Kessler, making a mockery of his own inexperience to completely dominate a proven world-class supermiddleweight who went on to take Froch's zero in his next fight. Right now, Ward is looking every bit the next Bernard Hopkins, a long-standing star in the making and a fighter of extreme quality.

7.

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Why?
The Mayweather fight did not affect JMM's pound-for-pound standing one iota in my eyes. Marquez was only up at that weight for the payday, and the size differences rendered it a mismatch. However, I think both Diaz fights have shown that Marquez is patently not the fighter he once was. In 2008, JMM showed in the Pacquiao rematch that he was one of the top two active fighters in the world, but since moving above 130lbs I don't think he looks the same. Marquez's frame and body type clearly don't allow him to carry additional weight well - as proven by his bloated, overweight appearance in the Mayweather clash. In the first Diaz fight, Marquez really struggled with the Baby Bull's pace, aggression and strength early on before his own power, skill and accuracy won out. In the rematch, Marquez was again the better man, but it wasn't a dominant or spectacular or even particularly impressive performance - and a pound-for-pound top 3 or 4 guy would annihilate a Juan Diaz-calibre fighter IMO.

8.

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9.

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10.

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speaking of super-middleweights, note that popkins had also placed ward as number 6 p4p on the sole basis of a win over kessler, thats despite popkins never rating kessler and never considering him a top 15 p4p fighter before.


you must find this kind of narrow minded ignorance disturbing bailey?

 

got to agree, it is one of the most sickenning posts i have ever seen and is systematic of the ignorance epedmic sweeping through esb, seriously what kind of deluded joker would place dawson as number 3 p4p and ward as number 6 p4p.

i recieved the fax whilst visiting our team elite headquarters in new york and fully concur that posters of this type of ignorance must be extinguished from esb in coming year, restoring common sense and fairness in favour of the brain washed delusion currently displayed by ring comic / hbo puppetts such as popkins (or any of his other alter-ego's :-().

i have a feeling that 2011 is gonna be an ELITE year for esb :happy

 

I was hoping that Calzaghe would have faced Erdei before Joe retired to get the lineal light-heavyweight title off him in 08.

 

I can't read half of what you wrote, but historically the US has been very weak at 168, other than when Toney and Jones were both briefly there. Between Ward and Dirrell, this is probably the best era of American super middleweights since then.

 

If were talking America's then Eric Lucas should be included as well.

In defense to Glenn Johnson, one has to remember he took alot of his SMW fights on short notice without full training camps.

The US had a dominant presence at SMW through the 90's with guys like Nunn, Barkley, Toney, Jones but none of those guys ever made a real career at 168, no unifications, no big fights with Benn, Eubanks, or Collins.

 

I wonder how long either Ward or Dirrell will stay at 168. I see both heading up to 175 in the next couple years.