Among Asian greats, how highly will Pac rank if he beats JMM?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Sweet Pea, Mar 13, 2008.


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  1. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Why would it far surpass what anything Morales & MAB done? Sure Pep was a great fighter of his time but hey, Morales also has a win over one of the greatest mexican champs of all time in MAB. He also won over one of the greatest fighters of this generation in Pacman, no.2 p4p, past his prime. On top of that a whole list of other top names on top of being a 3weight division champ. Your'e saying Morales was not dominant BW-FW? Apart from MAB, who did Morales really have trouble with?
     
    dangerousity, Mar 13, 2008
    dangerousity, Mar 13, 2008
    #31
  2. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No question he was a top fighter. That is not what is being argued here :)
     
    dangerousity, Mar 13, 2008
    dangerousity, Mar 13, 2008
    #32
  3. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    He doesn't hold a win over a #2 P4P fighter when he was past his prime. He holds a win over a fighter who wasn't top 10 P4P at the time, and losses in two rematches. 1/3 against both Pacquiao and MAB are very good, but simply not as good at all as 3/4 against Pep.

    That wasn't the point I was making. You're making it seem as if I was going against Morales, when in fact I was just pointing out that nothing he did was on the level of Saddler beating an arguable top 10 ATG 3 times.
     
    Sweet Pea, Mar 13, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Mar 13, 2008
    #33
  4. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    2 different fighters with 2 different styles is better than a win over 1 fighter. Just look at Mayorga over Forrest*2 or Taylor over Hopkins. Hes 1-2 against Pac but even as a die hard Pac fan you just cannot penalize Morales for those losses, especially the 3rd. Sadler has a great win over one of the best fighters of his generation, so does Morales...2 infact. Not much separates them in terms of achievements.

    You pointed out saddler dominance...as if to say morales wasnt :)
     
    dangerousity, Mar 13, 2008
    dangerousity, Mar 13, 2008
    #34
  5. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Not for as long as Saddler was. Saddler fought over 160 times over about 22 years. He was actually more consistent prior to his wins over Pep, where he was somewhat inconsistent towards the end of his career, but still rotating title wins between Featherweight and Super Featherweight.

    You say two wins over fighters of different styles is better than a win over a single fighter. Not when the single fighter is better than either of the two, and when the two you hold wins over, you also lost more often than not to. Saddler, on the other hand, beat Pep 3/4.
     
    Sweet Pea, Mar 13, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Mar 13, 2008
    #35
  6. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Had Morales been active without MAB around, he could just as easily clear out 122-126 for as long as his body holds up too. Obviously Morales style doesnt give him that long of a career but I dont think he should be penalised for that. Quality over quantity, Morales has plenty of quality wins that easily rivals Saddler's.

    Hopkins is arguably better than Pac & MAB, specially as he was no.1 p4p at the time of his defeat. Taylor beat him *2, by your argument Taylor is a greater ATG than Morales? if you have got a style in the bag, you may really just have it. Pac can beat MAB 9 more times but it wouldnt have any effect on his greatness..
     
    dangerousity, Mar 13, 2008
    dangerousity, Mar 13, 2008
    #36
  7. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    But he didn't beat the other great in his division but once out of 3, whereas Saddler did it 3/4. There's the difference, you're basing it on hypotheticals, I'm basing it on fact.

    And Saddler's style did?

    Not a single one that rivals any of Saddler's wins over Pep. Others are on the level or perhaps a bit higher even than his win over Elorde. If you're going by quantity over quality, you've actually just sealed the argument for Saddler in fact. You could argue that Morales had some better second tier wins, but definitely not the better top wins.

    Taylor has been exposed since very contoversially beating an old Hopkins, therefore no, he doesn't even belong in this conversation. The same can't be said of a guy like Saddler.

    You're getting off track. I am not arguing how many times you beat someone, I am arguing that Saddler beat a better fighter than Morales ever beat, and did it convincingly thrice, whereas Morales lost the majority of his fights to the best fighters he fought(Barrera and Pacquiao).
     
    Sweet Pea, Mar 14, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Mar 14, 2008
    #37
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