An Americans perspective of Joe ....

he is good fighter and most of his hate come from nationalism/racism

 

TBH Many euro's need to understand that Americans are not being Bias here, American have a huge standard of what is great and what is not.

Many Americans still contend and criticize B-HOP's achievements -- did it even WHEN HE WAS AT HIS BEST, many Criticize RJJ achievements -- EVEN WHEN HE WAS AT HIS BEST. Americans have been spoiled by the Likes of Hagler, SRL, SRR, Ali, and the list goes on and on. So ATG's are measured by their resume and the quality of opposition.

You have people that say RJJ or B-HOP don't have good resumes! RJJ has beat MANY champions (and fighters who went on to win titles), 2 ATG'S in their prime or close to it (not mentioning the bodysnatcher), 2 possible HOF'ers (Hill and Ruiz -- maybe 3 if Tarver iches his way in HOF status -- 4 if you mention Mike, but I do not), won titles from middleweight to HEAVY, and in his prime a phenomena that boxing has never seen before... H2H many could not beat him.

B-HOP --The man made the most title defenses, as he Linear champion of the Middleweight, ALL THE IMPORTANT BELTS. Beat 2 ATG's both in their prime years although Oscar slipped some but hey he KO'd him (yea they were their best at WW -- but Hagler's big win against Hearns is not diminished, so why should B-HOPS victories?). A possible HOF'er in Tarver. Destroyed Glen Johnson who has went on to do good things and win titles. And completely dominated the Middleweight champ in Pavlik - Pavlik needs a few more wins for him to be considered a HOF'er imo, but I believe he will get them. But he maybe one already.

And Americans are very judgmental of their achievements and resumes, especially during their respective primes, the exception with B-HOP because he is still very good even at his age.

We are more critical. Like for instance, Hatton hasn't done much. But in Britain when he retires he is an ATG to them. If we had a Fighter like Hatton in America, calling him a shoe in hall of famer would be pushing it.

 

sir i salute you you for the memories, it's been emotional.

Thanks also for having the class and humility that your detractors lack.

46-0 nuff said.

 

“This is an impressive crowd: the Have's and Have-more's. Some people call you the elites. I call you my base.”


“Arrogance diminishes wisdom”


-socrates on americans.

if you had a fighter like hatton then for once you would have one willing to travel,he would fit in well though he likes his creamcakes..

 

Couple of things.

Neither Hop or Toney were in their prime.

If Tarver,Ruiz and Hill are HOF bound then so is Kessler and Eubank, and the people saying Calzaghe MIGHT get in need shot.

Are you saying you dont think Mike should get in but Tarver,Ruiz and Hill should?.

 

therein lies the hypocrisy and sheer stupidity of his detractors

says it all.

well said.

 

Toney was definitely in his prime -- B-Hops was close to it, but RJJ was green too.

But look, you can make anyone's resume look bad. Look at what you are doing. Toney wasn't primed. See its that simple.

What I was saying was that Mike is an HOF'er, however JONES does no get any credit for BEATING HIM, as Mike was well past his best at 40.

I never said Eubanks was not a HOF'er, but he was past it in 97 -- this is not a dispute. Kessler being a HOF'er I doubt it. Hill has done a **** load more than Kessler, come on now. So has Ruiz, they have both beat better fighters and are more accomplished. Kessler needs to do not. He hasn't beaten anyone note worthy imo, but he has all the skills to be a great fighter, even if he is robotic, he can do it :good

 

No it doesn't. Toney was not past his prime, there is no basis for this. Just 1 year BEFORE losing to Jones, Toney put on a magnificent performance against a good, but somewhat past it Barkley. To say he was past his prime is foolish. Toney may have been weight drained, but he was in MOST of his fights at middleweight and SMW. It is no ones fault that he blows up inbetween fights. Every fight and fighter has issues such as these. Very seldom is there not an excuse given. One could say Joe's win over Kessler is in doubt since a week before the fight Kessler injured his right hand. Some could say B-Hops win over Pavlik is in doubt because Pavlik was supposedly sick before here it. Some people made excuses for Margarito's Lose to Shane on the fact that he somehow had eye surgery a week before the fight which is why he was not himself.

And this **** never ends. You just agree with some of it because you support Joe.

 

yes it does.

i agree because common sense is a trait i posess in great abundance.

p.s stop shouting

 

No you agree because it defends your guy and you are bias. The guy said Toney was past his prime, there is NO common sense in that. If he said he was weight-drained, that is common sense and well documented.

And to compare Hill and Ruiz to Kessler at this point in time is not common sense. Hill and Ruiz has done much more than Kessler and fought better fighters, at this point. There is nothing sensible about it. But I believe Kessler can surpass Hill, but he needs to fight! Kessler is not HOF worthy, neither is a guy like Pavlik -- they have more victories to gain. And atm Pavlik has beaten better fighters, although Kessler is much better, IMO, then Pavlik.

 

“Fortunately for serious minds, a bias recognized is a bias sterilized”


consider yourself cured.

im out.

 

Disagree about Toney being prime, and obviously Hop wasnt, but im not here to pick apart Roy's resume i was merely highlighting that while you say that Americans are more critical of a fighter than Euro's you then spent a paragraph glossing over Roy's resume and exagerating his opponents.

I wouldnt lose sleep over Hill and Eubank getting into the HOF, but Ruiz and Kessler are pretty similiar, I wouldnt have either in. (At the moment)


Fair do's.:good

 

Calzaghe had everything to be 1 of the greatest fighters ever, Fast hands, Reflexes, movement, Defense and had power but due to his hand injury's it decreased his time off the heavy bag so he lost power.
But when he was younger nobody could beat him and still cannot beat him as he uses his speed incredibly intelligently.
Calzaghe number 1.

 

46 - 0
32 Stopages

Beat
RJJ
Hopkins
Eubank

He chased all of the so called top US fighters who never wanted to face him and only did so when they had no choice.

He beat Lacy when he was the darling of the US press and the US boxing fraternity.

He took on Kessler when he was a champion and beat him. No doubt the fact that Kessler is a European will mean the US based opinions won't rate him and there in lies the issue.

Those of you from accross the pond have too big of an opinion of the standard of US boxers. The often quoted statement that such and such a fighter would'nt make it in the US or so and so has'nt beaten any of the top US fighters, has'nt fought in the US etc.. etc..

It's bull!
The European fighters are every bit as good as anything the US can throw up if not better.

Get used to it!

Come down off that sanctamonious high horse that too many preach from and get real.