An honest assessment of David Haye

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by ramalinga, Jul 25, 2009.


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  1. ramalinga

    ramalinga Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Strictly as a fighter.

    I don't like the guy, while I don't believe he is afraid of the Klitschkos, he does act like a diva. Still, dislike is no reason to not acknowledge a good or great fighter. I don't like PBF either but don't doubt for a moment that he is a great fighter.

    So how good is David Haye, in the boxing ring?

    I feel that Haye has tremendous athletic talent. His best assets, reflexes, handspeed and power, have to do alot with great genes. He is far from being a polished fighter though. Wladimir Klitschko had great athletic talent when he faced Corrie Sanders but that fight showed he needed to improve a lot in ring intelligence and skills. Which he did. The current version of Wlad is a whole class above the one who got beaten by Sanders.

    This is where I see Haye's real limitation and where his problematic character hinders him: I don't think he has improved much in the last 2 - 3 years. His last fight against Barrett saw him winning because of his talent and youth, but he was off - balance, seemed over - excited, threw looping punches. That was the same Barrett who was knocked out by Valuev and just facing a real HW seemed to make Haye nervous. He said afterwards that Barrett's jab felt like a cruiserweight's right hand. Now that was his last fight eight months ago and he has only fought four times in three years. Fighters improve by getting fights in which they are challenged and then work on weaknesses shown in the next training camp. Haye will probably always be in shape for his fights, but how can he improve with 23 pro fights and not fighting more often? Haye himself admitted that against the big HW's, he needs to do something totally different from what he has done before. With his talent, he might pull it off against Valuev, but as slow and unimpressive Valuev is, Haye hasn't beaten anyone who would be favored against Valuev.

    I feel that Haye may seriously hinder his deveopment as a fighter because his focus is too much on business too early. Wlad was focused on promoting when he should have prepared for Sanders, but learned from the experience. Lewis was too busy with a movie when Rahman trained in altitude in South Africa, but Lewis never made this mistake again. Haye however is all concerned about business and the best possible deal before he is even established at HW. Successfull transitions from lower weights to HW are not made that often. The last great cruiser who made it, Holyfield, fought six times at HW, probably for meager purses and he probably didn't care about the money at that stage. He was ready when he got the title shot, because he had grown into a HW fighter. If Haye keeps spending more time negotiating than fighting, he will lose fights that he could win based on talent. I don't think he has the mentality to deal well with such defeats, should they happen. I see a real possibility that he retires with 25 - 28 pro fights without ever having reached his potential.
    Comments, opinions?
     
    ramalinga, Jul 25, 2009
    ramalinga, Jul 25, 2009
    #1
  2. JohnAkiBoa

    JohnAkiBoa Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Your story is sad but true about Haye IMO.:-(

    He is wasting it..
     
    JohnAkiBoa, Jul 25, 2009
    JohnAkiBoa, Jul 25, 2009
    #2
  3. MattMattMatt

    MattMattMatt Guest

    No.

    English champion in his 8th fight.
    Challenges for IBO title in 11th fight.
    European Champion in 16th fight.
    Defends the Euro belt against the now WBC champ in his 19th fight.
    Linear, WBC, WBA and Ring Champion in his 21st fight (fighting in his opponents backyard).
    Linear, WBC, WBA, WBO and Ring Champion in his 22nd fight.

    You have absolutely no appreciation or perspective on what David Haye has achieved in a relatively short period of time.
     
    MattMattMatt, Jul 25, 2009
    MattMattMatt, Jul 25, 2009
    #3
  4. Pusnuts

    Pusnuts Active Member Full Member

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    Yeah his win over Mormeck was impressive, he doesnt sound like a fighter but he is one
     
    Pusnuts, Jul 25, 2009
    Pusnuts, Jul 25, 2009
    #4
  5. EnzoRD

    EnzoRD Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That's some achievement by ANY standards.

    This content is protected
     
    EnzoRD, Jul 25, 2009
    EnzoRD, Jul 25, 2009
    #5
  6. richard mossley

    richard mossley Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Can I have a dishonest assessment?
     
    richard mossley, Jul 25, 2009
    richard mossley, Jul 25, 2009
    #6
  7. ramalinga

    ramalinga Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good achievements. The problem is, David Haye thinks his best achievements are ahead of him, he wants to be unified HW champ and seems to focus more on business than on improving further as a fighter. If he was satisfied with beings cruiser champion, that's one thing. He would need to improve a lot from his best cruiserweight fights to be a serious threat at HW. I haven't seen him improve and how could he with fighting so rarely?
     
    ramalinga, Jul 25, 2009
    ramalinga, Jul 25, 2009
    #7
  8. ramalinga

    ramalinga Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Impressive for a cruiserweight. Not nearly enough to regard him as ready to take on the Klitschkos. Both brothers would have beaten Mormeck to a pulp without having to get up from the canvas. And what has Haye done since that win?
     
    ramalinga, Jul 25, 2009
    ramalinga, Jul 25, 2009
    #8
  9. 2tall2slow2

    2tall2slow2 Guest

    I'm gonna quote Haye which will probably make him more hated than he already is.

    "ring rust is an excuse boxers use when they lose"

    "I'd rather be involved in the business side rather than watching tv"

    Mostly paraphrased
     
    2tall2slow2, Jul 25, 2009
    2tall2slow2, Jul 25, 2009
    #9
  10. Jetset78

    Jetset78 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Haye is an unknown at HW so lets give him a chance. He's fought twice at this weight and won. He was undisputed CW champ, Mormeck was no bum and he beat him on his own turf.

    He's now fighting Valuev - if he wins he's a World Champ. If he loses he'll be downgraded to a B rated fighter and will have to work hard for another chance.

    He's mouthy and disrespectful to the Klits but I believe thats just a hype thing - and lets face it - it worked brilliantly, everyone in the boxing world knows who he is and he's got a title shot at HW in quick time.

    Whatever happens he's made the HW division interesting again - thank God!
     
    Jetset78, Jul 25, 2009
    Jetset78, Jul 25, 2009
    #10
  11. zico2010

    zico2010 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lots of good points from the original poster. Haye really needs to up the regularity with which he fights. If he isnt going to get the title fights he wants straight away he should have been fighting other contenders to keep busy & sharp and to improve his ranking. He could and should have fought 4 or 5 times at heavyweight by now. Despite his inexperience at HW though, i'd still rank him at no3 behind the klitschkos though. None of the other heavyweights have his blend of speed, mobility and power.
     
    zico2010, Jul 25, 2009
    zico2010, Jul 25, 2009
    #11
  12. irishspiceboy

    irishspiceboy Member Full Member

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    he is fast good jab and right but holds hands to low,i think he would win against valuev though but he is not great we all see how bad enzo is,and mormek was old but give him that cause he was brave,dont like him though,love to see toney school him
     
    irishspiceboy, Jul 25, 2009
    irishspiceboy, Jul 25, 2009
    #12
  13. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    Good points from the OP. I agree about Haye's natural strengths.

    Two major weaknesses that are hard to work on or improve because he seems born with them, it's part of his general style that probably can't be changed by an outside trainer:

    1. Haye boxes very open, left hand hanging down. This is a good strategy ONLY if you can take a punch. Haye can not. He will get caught by guys who have the reach and speed. Note how Vitali's hand is also hanging down, but Vitali is much taller so many smaller boxers can barely reach him and when they reach him Vitali has the chin to survive most punches.
    2. Haye boxes "small" instead of tall considering he's 1.91m (6"3). He's not short, but makes himself shorter artificially, dodging himself into a lower position in order to gain leverage for those wild looping haymaker hooks. They may look spectacular when they land, but once in a while he misses his opponent by a foot and then some, leaving him awefully exposed and completely off-balance. A quick counter punch and he finds himself on the back like a bloody amateur.
     
    madballster, Jul 25, 2009
    madballster, Jul 25, 2009
    #13
  14. Heavyrighthand

    Heavyrighthand Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    From what I've seen of him, Haye has a fairly unconventional style, in that he don't work behind the jab, much at all. He seems to crouch down, hands (dangerously) down at his sides, as he lies in wait for his chance to counter.

    And given his crushing power and fast hands and very fast reflexes for which to deliver those counterpunches, its a very efffective style.

    But when he's in with a big, skilled fighter like one of the K brothers, I can guaran-TEE his hands won't be at his sides.
     
    Heavyrighthand, Jul 25, 2009
    Heavyrighthand, Jul 25, 2009
    #14
  15. tysonlewisbook

    tysonlewisbook Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Remember the line in SCARFACE, when the gangster warns Tony Montana the ones who want it all too fast, don't last in this business. That's what davey is doing. he wants it all too fast and it will be his demise.
     
    tysonlewisbook, Jul 25, 2009
    tysonlewisbook, Jul 25, 2009
    #15
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