An opinion on Primo Carnera from 1993

Cool, thanks. I just found it on Google Earth.

 

Harry Grayson, a syndicated Sportswriter and Sports Editor for the News Enterprise Association, wrote an article, during the build-up to Carnera-Baer, which focused on Carnera having been left alone to train and that he had had a disagreement with Soresi.

In the piece, it is also claimed that Soresi has a contract with Carnera for 50% of the latter's earnings (after expenses).

Grayson also asked Carnera: "

This content is protected

"

Carnera responded: "

This content is protected

" he grunted, "

This content is protected

"

 

All this depends on if Soresi was worth 50%. Keeping a high percentage of the purses doesn't mean much if the purses are small.

Carnera considered retiring in 1932 after the Gains fight, but opted to sign with Soresi in hopes for a shot at the title.

He won the title and got big paydays. Carnera's purse for the Baer fight was over $122,000, to Baer's $65,000. For the Joe Louis fight Carnera's purse was nearly $87,000 to Joe's less than $45,000. So 50% would leave him with about $105,000 out of these two fights. Even with expenses, he probably ended up with a lot of money for that time. And this is from only two fights.

As for Soresi "ripping him off"--Carnera signed a contract, I think.

It isn't an either-or situation. Soresi got a lot of money, but seems to have managed Carnera to Primo's advantage. Whether Primo would have been better off with another manager who took a lower percentage is questionable.

 

Carnera would have generated a lot of income on level of activity alone.

As others have pointed out, his money would have gone a lot further in Italy.

Carnera's managers were bad people who did bad things, but they might argue that they gave Carnera the chance to crack the American market, and ultimately made him a very wealthy man.

 

How much was Duffy on ?

What happened to Carnera's previous contract ? When did it expire ?
Did Carnera actually "sign with" Soresi, or did Soresi simply buy his way in.
What happened to See's piece ?

They ALL had contracts with Carnera.
Therein lies much of the problem.

This was, of course, pretty much the norm for the boxers of that era. Max Baer and many of the others were cut up piecemeal too.

 

The biggest rip off was probably the Uzcudun world championship fight.
Carnera fought for nothing but a medal, his slice of the take going instead to the Fascist government, a generous 'donation'.
Whether his managers retained a fee or not is another question.

 

Exactly. When you see how often he fought and the crowds he attracted, the total receipts, that would have been a heck of a lot of money.

I believe he probably made some relatively money early on, while being fleeced. He sent enough home and spent enough to stay satisfied for a year or two.
But I believe stories of him leaving America with nothing in 1936 after the Leroy Haynes fights are true too. That's the tragedy of it. The exploitation and cheating of him increased when he was champ and then even more when he was on his way out and taking beatings.

 

I think that he was a lot more shrewd with money than given credit for.

I think that his plan had always been to retire to Italy, and share as little of his money with the American tax man as possible.

I also question the narrative of him being sent to the glue factory at the end of his career.

All of his fights after losing the title, seem like reasonable choices, if you take away the crystal ball.

 

"his slice of the take going instead to the Fascist government, a generous 'donation'"

And a donation which probably ensured Carnera that Mussolini would protect his Italian assets from any judgments in American courts.

My guess is Soresi was the brains behind this payoff if this info is accurate.

I know we will hear the Italy was corrupt bit, but things weren't really different in America. America has never exactly been overrun with "poor but honest" politicians. Public servants lining their pockets knows no national boundaries.

 

The tax code in the US was through the roof for high earners back then too.

 

Certainly Carnera didn't go back to the Italian poverty in Italy, and he was on good terms with the Mussolini regime. But like everyone else, when that ship started to list, he was in a world of trouble no doubt. Whether the story about him being robbed in 1942 was true or not, it would be around that time that anything he might have had was becoming of very uncertain value.

True enough, America was/is corrupt too, and that was probably Carnera's biggest problem in getting paid.

 

I think that probably sums it up reasonably. There's a difference between Carnera having assets and him having a sufficient personal cash flow. Court proceedings, for financial claims against Carnera, which had been made public for years, were still ongoing in '37, with many, if not all of his liquid assets being frozen in the US, while judgements were made on who took what.

Carnera was more or less stranded in a Budapest sanitarium, by the end of '37, going into '38, following his bout with Zupan; a fight which was suspected to have brought on hemorrhaging of one of his kidneys. Whilst convalescing, he was either wired funds to settle his debts there and get a ticket home - and/or, as some reports tell, he was transported back to Italy, courtesy of the Italian government.

It really doesn't matter which of these were true because, either way, by this point, it is clear that he was entirely reliant on the good will of others. So, whichever way one looks at this, it was a wretched situation, given the heights he had not so long ago reached.

For this reason, I think the accounts of Carnera's rise and fall are, in the main, quite accurate. That Carnera has been held up as an example of just how bad the exploitation and cheating could get is of absolutely no surprise to me (and should not be to anyone, who follows the story).

 

Being in a Budapest Sanitarium proves he was sick, but doesn't necessarily prove he was poor.

"he was either wired funds"

Which could have come from his own bank account.

"or, as some reports tell, he was transported back to Italy, courtesy of the Italian government."

He was a national hero. I wouldn't be very surprised if when it became known he was sick, the Italian government would become involved in transporting him home, if the reports of their role are in fact true. Carnera was a sick man and not likely to be up to planning travel and dealing with the complications of crossing international borders.

Joseph Page has quite a bit of detail on the kidney removal and has Carnera in Italy.

"A second collapse, this time in the Villa Carnera in mid-January, prompted further medical treatment. On January 29, Primo was taken by ambulance to a hospital in Padua. Here after further examination it was determined there was no hope to save the damaged right kidney. A surgeon named Dr. Fosiani removed the organ on February 2, 1938."

"he was entirely reliant on the good will of others"

I don't think any evidence has been produced to show that this is the case, except in the sense that any sick man is dependent on others until he recovers.

By the way, if an ordinary person gets sick abroad, his embassy will help. They won't pay bills, but will act in his behalf to deal with the situation. It is really not surprising if the Italian government got involved. It is a normal function.

What strikes me is that Carnera spent quite a bit of time in hospitals both in the US and in Europe, and seems to have gotten top medical care.

 

How can someone spend so many years on this forum and not understand the quote function?

It beggars belief.

 

To be fair its time consuming to break down quotes. I get why he does it that way. But why am I talking about this at 11:30am on a Thursday? Not a damn clue.

Love you all.