An unbiased evaluation of Tyson.

or Tyson was that good he destroyed what ever chance Biggs had of reaching his potential. Going in against Tyson it was a solid run Tyrell had. Every other non communist Olympic gold heavyweight champ since Frazier made it to the pro title.

 

Without sounding corny, it's good that everyone got to throw in some good points.

 

For me tyson would have went on to become the best heavyweight ever, if he stayed out of trouble and had cus etc around him and stayed away from don king. It was no surprise that tyson's downfall came not long after he went with king. Buster fought a great fight that night and was a talented fighter on his night but that wasn't the real tyson in there that night, no head movement whatsoever, no combo's also looked lethargic all night, tyson made buster look exceptional. I dont know who trained tyson at that point but whoever it was didn't have a clue and also was training him differently to cus's methods, you only have to look at what they used to control the swelling in the corner to see they wer'ent the most professional team. Cus really was a master any up and coming boxing trainer nowadays should be looking at his methods very closely. Not only that he inherited a man with practically no family ties, extremely hungry due to his enviromant, physically gifted but he also had him training like a proffesional from a very young age. We'll be waiting a very long time for someone like tyson to come along again. In the end i think cus has some blame for the wheels falling off as he had started to overlook tyson's behaviour when he knew he had a champion in the making. They should have kept teddy atlas around and backed him up, to keep tyson disciplined, say what you want about teddy but he took no **** off anyone. but in the end tyson was always going to **** it all up, no one comes out of the enviroment he came out of without major life-long problems. I think the reason tyson gets an unfair deal from many especially people that are into boxing is that when tyson came along everybody sat up and took notice, not just boxing people but armchair fans or people that didn't follow the sport. Speak to people that dont know about boxing they'll tell you that tyson was the best ever etc etc, the experts or people that follow boxing then go the other way. If you know a lot about something and someone that knows very little, you'll find a lot of the time the people that know a lot will disagree with the people that know little most of the time their right but in my opinion not on this occasion, they would rather be seen as so called experts than give credit where its due. As good as Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe etc were, Tyson would have been too much for them all if he continued to train how they brought him up and not ****ed it all up. And i think people know it but they wont give him the credit for it, maybe in another 10 or 20 years time. I still dont think we'll ever seen anyone at that age destroy seasoned professionals, world champions or ex world champions the way tyson did.

 

No, people are making simple observations about the various fighters Tyson fought. That's what the thread was dealing with. An evaluation based on his competition. The poster wanted input. As far as the "if": "If" a lot of things for any fighter. Again, Tyson is not at fault for the competition. It's whatever was presented to him and he beat them all until, of course, Douglas.

 

What champion fought better opposition as champion if you stick to position?

 

The holmes win wasnt as bad as some make out, holmes stated months before in interviews he was training hard waiting for a tyson fought to get signed, said the 19 i think month lay off had been good for him to have a rest and now he had his drive and hunger back, said he wasnt fighting for the money as he was already a very rich man and didnt need it, but was fighting for glory and wanted and thought he could do a number on tyson.
It wasnt like he had no peperation and was skint, its just tyson made him his ***** and done such a job on him people think holmes had to have been washed up and undertraind.
Same with spinks that alot thought was going to be the one to dethrone him. Blasted him in 90 secs so automaticly hes undersized overated ect. Although he was scared shitless i think..

 

Yep and you're here for an honest debate atsch

 

I stopped reading after you tried to convince somebody that Razor Ruddock almost beat Tyson. Unbiased? Hardly!

Tyson beat plenty of bums, so have plenty of other great fighters. Berbick, Smith, and Tucker werent great but they had the belts. Spinks was the lineal champ but u r dismissing Tysons win over him by saying Spinks was scared. Sure, Spinks was scared, and for good reason. He was scared of Holmes x2 or Cooney. Thomas was considered a very good fighter when Tyson fought him... nobody brought up his drug use when he was winning. Who did Tucker ever beat? He was as good as ever vs. Tyson. Holmes and Williams? Sure, a prime Holmes may have beat Tyson and Williams could have done better but why blame Tyson for how people showed up for the fight. Tyson was drinking drugging and fvcking everything he could leading up to some of these fights as well.

 

I meant to say Spinks was NOT scared of Holmes or Cooney and Tyson was the only fighter who dropped Spinks.

 

A quick rundown of Tysons opposition

Mitch Green - Tyson couldnt Ko this guy, Mitch Green boxed on for a further 20 years after facing Tyson, no one ever stopped him.

Smith - stunk the fight out so bad and did his best to hug and hold to make it to the final bell, one of the worst fights ever.

Tillis - Tysons first step up, he was still green and fighting an experienced journeyman whod been in with Biggs, Coetzee, Frazier, Witherspoon, Williams, Page, Thomas, Shavers and Weaver before facing Tyson.

Tucker - the only guy who fought both Lewis/Tyson (apart from Holyfield) and was stopped by neither, he also fought much better versions of both Tyson and Lewis than Holy did. Between them Tyson/Lewis Kod Bruno, Botha, Biggs, Golota and Ruddock.

Berbick - Tyson was the first and only guy to KO Berbick, he boxed on for another 14 years and was never stopped again.

Thomas - Tyson was the first guy to Ko Thomas

Holmes - Tyson was the first and only guy to ever Ko Holmes and Holmes boxed into his 50s

Spinks - Undefeated and Tyson was the first and only guy to KO Spinks.

Biggs - was undefeated and Tyson was the first person to Ko him

Tubbs - Tyson was the first person to Ko Tubbs and he did it in 2 rounds, something Bowe struggled to pull off.

Mathis Jr - fought Bowe, Biggs, Williams. Tyson was the first to stop him

Savarese - Fought Holyfield, Foreman, Izon, Grant, Buster Douglas. Tyson was the only one who stopped him in one round.

Ruddock - has a controversial loss to David Jaco apparently the fight was stopped due to him having an asthma attack, Tyson was the first guy to properly TKO Ruddock.

Etienne - would go on to beat Brewster (who beat you know who), he fought Valuev, Oquendo, Botha, Brock. Tyson was the only one who Kod him in 1rd

Stewart -fought Foreman, Holyfield, Moorer, Maskaev. Tyson was the only one who stopped him in one round.

Bruno - lost to punchers like Witherspoon, Lewis and Smith. Tyson stopped him twice, both times quicker than the rest.

Williams - fought Tillis, Holmes, Ferguson, Weaver, Cooper, Morrison, Berbick, Witherspoon, Bruno. Tyson was the only one to KO him in one round

These guys werent bums, but Tyson was wiping the floor with them

And i feel Tysons pre prison opposition was a bit better than Alis pre exile opposition. What seperates the 2 is what Ali did after his comeback and what Tyson failed to do.

Tysons resume gets shitted on constantly and then the same people praise Lennox Lewis resume?

I love the irony, that Tyson fought weak opposition and Lewis is greater.

Tyson fought bums like Botha, Golota, Ruddock, Tucker, Bruno, Biggs
Lewis fought good fighters like Botha, Golota, Ruddock, Tucker, Bruno, Biggs

Tysons best wins are overrated, he beat an old Holmes and a former LHW Spinks
Lewis is great, he has wins over a shot Mike Tyson and an old former CW Holyfield.

Is Lewis' win over Holyfield really that much better than Tysons over Holmes? Holmes went on to put on good performances (for his age) against Mercer, Mcall and Holyfield. Holyfield, after the Lewis loss, would go on to lose to the likes of Byrd and Ruiz.

Admittedly Lewis is slightly better due to how he avenged his losses and finished his career.

But the difference between the 2 isnt as wide as people make it out.

Holyfield not only beat Tyson but performed much better against all mutual opposition, except Stewart.

Apart from Holyfield, Tyson destroyed all mutual opposition with Bowe in much betterv fashion. Bowe was retired by Golota because he was shot, but what was Tyson when he fought Golota? (and made him quit)

Between them Tyson/Bowe fought Golota, Mathis, Seldon, Ferguson, Biggs, Tubbs. Tyson beat them all much more convincingly. Bowe obviously has the win over Holyfield though

 

Great post, Azzer. Nothing more really needs adding.

 

Tyson was definitely a top 10 all time great heavy in my opinion. He had speed,movement,aggression and power in abundance. He totally dominated the scene circa 1986-89 and fought anyone who was anyone in the division at the time. I'd rate him somewhere around sixth or seventh.

 

Holmes WAS rusty and undertrained and fought Tyson for the money knowing that he would probably lose. I knew Spinks had no chance. The fact that Spinks beat Holmes shows you how low Holmes had sunk. Cooney? Please tell me that you know the Cooney story. Nothing against Tyson but that's the way it is or was.

 

I don't think anyone blames Tyson. He beat anyone management put in front of him. Tyson did his job.