An unbiased evaluation of Tyson.

While it's true that Tyson didn't train particularly hard for either Bruno or Williams, He was particularly sloppy for Douglas. Rumour had it he even flew back to the states a couple of times to party during training.

 

as they say, normally the first impression is the right one :good

 

Correct :deal

 

I think a lot of people are persuaded by what Mike did outside the ring and the way he treated others. It's a shame because there are other greats in the game who've done just as bad or far worse but get treated like gods. Any unbiased observer of Tyson would see that he was something special and more than a handful for any other heavyweight ATG in history.

 

The bias wasn't based on outside the ring activity. It dealt with his opposition during his reign.

 

:nono

So what was so bad about his opposition? You seem to be one of the guys to give Tyson an unfair shake. Many points were proven that Tyson's opposition was equal to opposition from most heavyweight greats. Ironchamp laid it on the line for you to see.

 

I did not give Tyson an unfair shake. I've stated that he beat everyone put in front of him. I commented about Holmes being rusty and just nowhere near his best and Spinks being completely overrated. There were some others that were bums but I agree many champions of the past have fought bums. Tyson did his job and was a great champion.

 

I wouldn't call these guys bums, in Tyson's reign or the champions of the past. They were championship caliber fighters challenging on the world stage. Very difficult to do. So calling them 'bums' is a bit of disrespect, to the men and to the sport.

 

Ok, some weren't as good as others, but they all deserve respect.

 

:good

 

Dude...I have to tell you. I have been extremely impressed with your all of your post. From this point on when I see your name in the thread I know a serious decussion is happening. Thanks.

I just finished reading Mike book and he honestnessly admit when he screwed up. I think it is pretty clear that Mike thought he was invincible, took one look at Douglas' resume, and went out a partied. God help Douglas if Mike was the cagey, hungry, Cus mentallity, ripped 215 fighting Jack Dempsey rebirth. Mike showed me that he could take a beating like and man and even fight back when the chips were down and almost pull off magic.

His whole problem was he was self-destructive. Like you pointed out, he got rid of his entire Cus crew and got touched for for his disregard for hardcore training to stay great.

 

Thanks for the kind words mate :good

I'm coming to the end of that book as well and it definitely appears that he had demons even as a kid but they were kept in control of to a degree by a stable family structure around him and an aim in life to be someone. I always felt he was easily influenced by whoever he was around, so Cus turned him into a disciplined boxing savant and tried to peel the street layers off him, but others later in Tyson's life reversed that. It also seemed he wasn't the finished article with Cus, he definitely still had problems.

Problem is that Tyson was weak enough to be impressionable in that way. He also seemed to seek that bad ass image as well, he had that devil in him where he wanted to be the meanest street thug around. Kind of ridiculous when you think he could have worked more on being the best heavyweight that ever lived. His attitude kind of disappoints me because he chose the weak self indulgent route, but at the same time I'm am grateful for that prime he had as he made boxing exciting again, and for ever more people will speculate how good he really was. even though he took that loss to Douglas there were question marks in many peoples eyes, so the debate will rage on. You can pretty much write him off post prison, I'm not an apologist but he was clearly a different fighter, still dangerous to average fighters, but not what he was.

Tyson lived off that 4 years of supremacy for a long time, he still does. So it shows you how what an impression the guy made. Not many heavyweights have a run that decent and has people calling you invincible. Even though he clearly wasn't it does make him one of the most interesting and exciting heavys ever, even if not the best. At the end of the day his prime is missing a few elements that make it difficult to put him in the top 3 at least, still I'd watch replays of his fights over most others.

 

I wonder what skill-set he as missing.

I am going over his old fights, olympic to contender. What was next for him to learn? Mike was his most effective at mid-range where he had room to slip and charge. That was his M.O. He would slip and charge, slip, duck, and charge. He was fully committed to hurting someone each time and that was the difference. His power and speed were enhanced by his Cus strengthened mind to go out send people a hard message that we are not just here to win but, to destroy. Mike carried it out.

His favorite fighters was Duran and he also admired Greb (I bet he has seen film of him), Walker, etc. and desired to be that mean hard-living and hard fighting destroyer. He is a student and he earned his place on that list but, he never gradutated to a seasoned vet with evolved skills. His partying robbed him of his mobility as he put on weight. What I am saying is just like Duran looked like the devil-on-horse-back against Buchannan, Duran also blossomed into a beautiful dancer\puncher again DeJesus III. This never happened with Mike, he never grew past the hard-charger. He was stunted in the same style from the mid-80's until he retired. Slip, charge, restart.

Tyson never completely developed a great jab. It was there but not really. His countering skill was good but, he had the skill to be so much better at it. His defense was really good, but he could have be one of the best defensive HW's if he had stayed commited to learning the rest of the tools. His right hand did not come out as much as it could have. Again, mastering the jab would have made this an easier transition. His footword was slow unless he was on the attack but his had great balance. Still, looking at his younger days, he bounced more and was faster to the point than his opponent. His body punching was surprizingly weak. I think Riddick Bowe has much better infighting skill. Mike never, shouldered and made space, like Chavez and Duran. He always got tied up. He did not commit to the body because he was always looking to end it with one shot to the head.

In short, his loss of Cus Crew and his own recklessness caused us to be robbed of a fully developed killing machine. Those that love Tyson imagine that he was that fully developed fighter. People like me shudder when we think of what might have been despite how successfull he actually was.