An unbiased look at Fury's top 10 opponents

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by NEETzschean, Dec 27, 2021.


  1. Punchdrunk1

    Punchdrunk1 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's funny when people are saying about Fury's top 10 they always mention wins rather than top 10 opponents.
    It's usually Wlad, Wilder X3, Chisora X2...

    When you look at the top 10 opponents his resume doesn't look that great.

    Fury may go on to beat Usyk, Joshua and Whyte and be unquestionably the top dog but he has fought a lot of bums.

    Over time people talk about the Wlad fight as a boxing masterclass but I thought the fight was utter shite.
    If you compare Usyk Vs Joshua, Usyk completely schooled him.
     
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  2. red corner

    red corner Active Member banned Full Member

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    Wald was 39! How's fury going to look at 39? Chisora was balmy top ten, and Wilder beat one old ( ortiz ) top ten contender and the fight was close. That't the extent for Fury'a resume.
     
  3. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wlad hadn't lost in 11 years and was considered far and away the No1 heavy on the planet. Is Fury's record light? Yea he has some good wins though it should be better. In the context of this generation of heavyweights who for the most part don't fight top ten guys consistently, its OK overall, solid wins over Wlad and Wilder.
     
  4. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Rankings can be deceiving. How many times has AJ been the underdog? 0. How many times has he even been close to even odds? 0. This strongly suggests that in one way or another, the deck was always heavily stacked in his favour.

    Also, why just "top 10 fighters"? Why not top 2/3? Fury has wins over Wlad and Wilder x2, plus a draw, all away from home. AJ has the win over a 17 months older and inactive Wlad in Wembley, which was a life and death war. Why not also include losses? AJ's got 2 to Fury's 0, one against what everyone regarded as a no-hoper and in devastating fashion.

    Whatever statistical justification there may be for ranking Chisora above Wallin or Cunningham is deeply flawed. Cunningham had wins on the road over Huck (by KO) and Wlod, as well as G. Jones in America, with most of his losses being close/controversial by decision. He was a 2x cruiserweight champion, while at his best Chisora was a fringe contender at heavyweight. One of Cunningham's victims (Huck) came up to HW and many thought he was robbed against Povetkin. We've also been reminded recently that cruiser was an underrated division.

    Compare Wallin's performance against Fury (his only loss) to Chisora's most recent and the difference is vast; the 6'5 southpaw was able to land plenty of offence and took Fury to war, while Chisora was barely able to land a glove on Fury. Chisora quits at the end of the 10th, whereas Wallin comes back from being battered in the 5 previous rounds to win the 12th round big. Wallin's 10-2 schooling of Breazeale also compares favourably to any win 38 year old warhorse Chisora has ever had, with the possible exception of his come from behind KO victory over Takam.
     
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  5. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Backfoot Tyson Fury didn't try to stop Kevin Johnson, who was considerably younger and fresher when he fought Fury. The Johnson who fought AJ was 1-4 in his last 5 fights and had been dropped heavily by a Chisora overhand in the 5th two fights prior.

    Destroying a badly faded journeyman cheque casher like Johnson doesn't mean you beat the likes of Usyk or even Andy Ruiz, which are the really meaningful fights.
     
  6. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Realistically Usyk may have a better resume than Fury because the cruiserweights he beat are likely better than nearly all the heavyweights Fury has beaten.

    Realistically Breidis is likely better than anyone Fury beat outside Wilder and Klitschko
     
  7. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Fury was 27! How did Wlad look at 27? Peeling himself off the canvas against fringe contenders. The 39 year old Wlad looked a hell of a lot better than that and was a year removed from his best career performance and fighting in his backyard as a massive favourite, against a guy who had never had a championship fight. 17 months later, inactive, defeated and away from home he gave a 27.5 year old, 18-0, star amateur SHW AJ hell, so he clearly had plenty left.

    Ortiz was 5th and 6th ranked when Wilder KO'd him, Stiverne was 3rd ranked when Wilder schooled him. Wilder was 11 years and 43 fights unbeaten, had 10 consecutive defences over 5 years (more than Tyson, Lewis and Vitali) hadn't lost to a Buster/McCall/Sanders/Ruiz and was the biggest puncher in the sport with great length, speed and toughness. Few fighters in history have done something like being inactive for 2.5 years, lost 10 stone, kicked the drugs habit and travelled away to fight a man as dangerous as that 3 times and not been beaten once. Before 2/3 of the fights Wilder was the favourite, many if not most experts were picking him. What Fury did has no parallel in heavyweight history.

    Chisora was a plodding fringe contender at his best. It's a bizarre stretch to suggest he was better than 2x cruiser champ Cunningham or 6'5 southpaw Wallin, both of which did vastly better against Fury.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
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  8. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Wilder's unbeaten run might have to do with facing very few capable opponents-that doesn't mean he would have thrived had he stepped up and tried facing the best

    Going into the first fight with Fury he had only two fights against guys I would consider top 10 heavyweights
     
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  9. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Wlad and Wilder > Briedis and AJ

    Chisora gave Usyk one of his closest fights, tougher than anyone save Briedis and AJ (styles and Usyk's relative HW inexperience may have been important here). Hunter was sub-200 lbs in the ring against Usyk and hit his level at HW when he (slightly controversially) drew with a faded 40 year old Povetkin. Stubby Glowacki never moved up but had serious problems with a slightly faded Huck and problems with a badly faded Cunningham. Gassiev has not got any meaningful fights at HW yet but imo is too flatfooted and stubby to be a top HW, it was an easy stylistic matchup for the fast and agile southpaw Usyk. Bellew avoided Briedis and his successes at HW were limited to beating a shot limping Haye in a war and crushing a beyond shot Haye in the rematch. Huck was badly faded when Usyk beat him. Usyk should get huge credit for fighting exclusively on the road and clearing out strongest cruiser the division but beyond Briedis and AJ I don't see them as being above B/C level at HW.

    We've seen that Chisora is one of Usyk's better wins and Cunningham would be too. 6'5, 240 lbs southpaw Wallin would probably beat all of Usyk's cruiser opponents barring Briedis and AJ, which would also be competitive.
     
  10. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    The likes of Buster, McCall, Rahman, Puritty, Sanders, Brewster and Ruiz were generally not considered top 10 HW's but they all upset long-reigning HW champs. Are Rahman and Sanders better than Ortiz? Is Ruiz better than Stiverne? Is Puritty better than Washington? Is McCall better than Duhaupas?

    I think the main reason why Wilder's aforementioned opponents, who have all notched decent wins, are worse than the other journeymen and fringe contenders is because Wilder didn't happen to get KO'd by any of them, unlike more vulnerable past champs.

    Wilder fought the unbeaten lineal champion three times, who was also the No.1 ranked HW in the 2nd and 3rd fights. He lost 2/3 but dropped Fury 4 times and came closer to beating him than anyone else thus far. It can't be equated to being dropped 4 times and quitting against Andy Ruiz, which is far more of an exposure by any measure.
     
  11. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    What in my post is factually wrong?
     
  12. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    McCall, Rahman, Douglas were all considered top 10 heavyweights and absolutely better than the likes of Washington or Duhaupas who are journeyman/gatekeeper level and lacking impressive wins. Wilder's era included the likes of Povetkin, Wladimir Klitschko, Anthony Joshua, Usyk etc who he conveniently failed to fight. Had he fought and beaten the likes of Povetkin people might take him more seriously but he didn't. I don't see how Wilder's consistency sets him apart from contemporaries like Povetkin and Pulev whose only prime losses were to Wladimir Klitschko.
     
  13. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    If Fury should have been DQ'd against Cunningham then the resumes of past champs would be absolutely littered with DQ's. It's not comparable to Ward's half a dozen "accidental" headbutts against Kessler or Wlad initiating more clinches than landing punches against Povetkin. Fury had far less A-side privilege in America than those champs did and was deducted a point.

    Johnson has better wins than McDermott, the latter was tougher because Fury was a 35 amateur bouts, 7 fight pro novice at 21 and unfit rather than 24 with 20 fights and fit. McDerm 1 and 2 were both wars, the former being a controversial result but not a robbery.
     
  14. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    We can't extrapolate much on Wilder giving Fury problems given his resume consists largely of Wilder himself and an old Klitschko.
    It's circular reasoning. But despite a resume lacking in depth, Fury managed to get dropped by Cunningham and was horribly cut and in danger of being stopped against Otto Wallin who hasn't done much in his career aside from nearly stopping Fury.
     
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  15. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    We've seen mid-late 30's Chisora lose controversially to Whyte and Parker and 40 year old inactive Arreola give Ruiz a tough fight and drop him. I'm not at all convinced that Whyte, Parker or Ruiz could have beaten 2x cruiser champ Cunningham in America or 6'5 southpaw Wallin. Whyte wasn't sure of the latter either, so he pulled out and didn't reschedule. Ruiz wouldn't have a chance against either based on styles, too flatfooted and stubby.