Andrade: "I did not leave the neutral corner!"

You article is written very solidly but you will concede that if Andrade had a crack at Bute, say thirty or even fifteen more seconds, he would have finished Bute for good. If you really want to go out on a limb you could argue that Bute might survive another minute or so but that seems like a long shot. Andrade may have been wearing down but that was clearly over ridden by his enthusiasm in finishing off Bute, and compared to Bute, Andrade was a completely fresh fighter, so Andrade being exhausted is a moot point in the context of the situation.

Bute was clearly dust, 99% chance of Andrade finishing him off given another fifteen seconds.

So even if you want to argue, as you do so well, that Bute won a legitimate rather than a technical victory, the moral victory, the "true" victor in this case is clearly Librado Andrade.

I thought Hatton righfully so deserved the points victory over Collazo. Score the rounds add up the points Hatton for me was the winner. However, given another round Collazo would have won by KO, so for me, Collazo won a sort of moral victory, just to clarify what I mean.

But Hatton wasn't totally gone, Bute was completely gone. I just want to be sure you aren't implying that Bute could have handled Andrade for another round, or even falling back on the "we don't know" statement.

You would agree that almost assuredly Bute would have been smashed to bits given a few more seconds of the "exhausted" :roll: Andrade's onslaught? Correct??????????

 

Andrade would have won the fight if it had been a 13 round fight, yes. Bute would have won the fight by shutout if had been a 10 round fight. It doesn't matter who would have won a hypothetical fight. The only thing that matters is why won the 12 round fight they actually fought on the night. Bute won that fight, fair and square. Bute was the actual winner, the "true" winner and the "moral" winner of that fight, because he had the heart, guts and strength to beat the count. Andrade could have won if he had fought a different fight...maybe! We'll never know. In a different fight, Bute might have stopped Andrade in the 10th round.

Bute wasn't completely gone, no. If he had been completely gone, he wouldn't have made it to within two seconds of the end of the fnal three minute period, and he wouldn't have had the strength to get up and beat the count. If he had been completely gone, he would have been KOed by Andrade before the end of the round, or he would not have managed to beat the count.

Given a few more seconds, I think Andrade would have KOed him, but what happens after the end of the fight is irrelevant. The fight was over the moment Bute rose after the knockdown. He could have died the very next second, and he'd still have been he winner. It is a twelve round fight. You only have to be able to last for twelve rounds. You don't have to last for twelve round + how many extra seconds it would take your opponent to stop you, after you beat the count. Andrade knew it was a twelve round fight. He didn't manage to KO Bute in that time and he lost a wide decision. I don't see why he complains.

 

Bute was seriously hurt, with 29 secs left of the round - not able to defend himself anymore. Follow your own advice, Decebal and watch the fight again. Its not the refs job to do any other estimations, whether the other fighter was dominant or not in the other rounds.

No, it is not. If the fighter is in a condition where he can no longer defend himself - he should take a count. This is to protect the fighter from more injury. Its not his job to judge whether or not there is 3 mins left, 1 secs left, 12 rounds left, who is ahead on pts or what not.

You seem to misread me, I am not taking about stoppage, but counting, if you don't know the difference, then you might want spend some time watching boxing for a while.

Dear god... I am stunned by your ignorance. If the ref had counted over Bute at :29 or 0:20 left of the fight, the KD might never have happened. It is a pure miracle that this didn't end badly. If a fighter is total game - whether it be from total exhaustion or if he is stunned, the ref needs to start counting or stop the game, depending on the fighter is able to continue or not.

Watch the fight.

 

I try again: And therefor he made the loooong count???

 

Good response. For me, the fact that Andrade would have KO'd him given a few more seconds, which you yourself wrote, is the moral, or true, victory that I refer to, where as, in my book, the way in which Bute won took away from the "trueness" of his victory. Specifically, the fact that he could not continue, however, the rules don't deem that necessary in the final round.

However, its acceptable to see Bute's victory as even more glorious, seeing that he did in fact beat the count. But again, to see that he was a finsished fighter at the end of the fight, the glory is clearly Andrade's.

I don't see how the moral victory that I refer to could not go to the man that would have clearly won had the fight lasted another few seconds.

When one man beats the living crap out of another and that other man wouldn't even last another fifteen seconds, its hard to see the guy getting beat to a pulp as very high and mighty. Surely you can see what I mean.

I wish there were more boxing writers that put as much thought and effort and research into their articles as you do. Good job.

 

I thought writers should be objective - guess not.

 

This is not rocket science. Andrade was robbed. Bute was in no way able to continue, the fight shouldve been waved off. Game. Set. Match
Theres really nothing to discuss. To think otherwise highlights either ignorance or the power of pretending
Andrade KO12

 

Since you are one of the few that has some kind of objectivity concerning this - do you think that the ref should have ended the fight - considering what went on for 25 secs prior to the KD? And not resulted to counting?

PS you are entitled to answer no

 

Before the knockdown, Bute did not go down because he wasn't being hurt badly enough by Andrade and was tough enough to take the punishment. He wasn't able to defend himself, but he was managing to run the clock down because he was clinching successfully.

The referee could not have counted him while he was on his feet.

No standing eight counts in championship fights. Please read the rules.

The only things the referee could have done was either to stop the fight or to stop Bute from clinching, to allow Andrade a free shot at knocking him down. He chose to do the latter, showing good judgment. Andrade had a clear shot at KOing Bute and Bute had a clear opportunity to try and fight to beat the count, after being knocked down. The referee let both fighters prove themselves, instead of robbing Bute when he was clearly in a position to fight towards the end of the last seconds of the final round and instead of gifting Andrade the win, when he was clearly in no position to KO Bute before the end of the round. The referee's judgement was proven to be right.

Please watch the fight.

 

Andrade walked away with a lot of credit for having put Bute down on his arse and for almost having KOed him. Bute walked away with a lot of credit for dominating the fight and having the heart and courage to fight to beat the count, when he was down, exhausted, in a heap, in the corner. The rematch is much anticipated. I am glad you enjoyed my article. Thank you.

 

Bute was in LaLa land before and after the KD. The ref couldve stopped it before and definitely shouldve stopped after. No count needed here. A ****ing gust of wind wouldve blown Bute down. I'm a fan of Bute but this **** is rediculous

 

You are free to be wrong about this, but don't expect anyone to try and argue sense into you if you cannot be bothered to engage with the issues at hand. I wrote an article explaining carefully, in detail why Bute was not knocked out, why he beat the count and why he deserved to hear the final bell and why the decision should indeed have gone to the judges.

Here it is:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=17659&more=1

Please feel free to inform yourself of the rules before commenting on what the correct decision should have been. I've included the rules in the article, alongside a video of the last round.

 

I guess, if Bute suffered brain damage as a result, you think he did the right thing as well - I get it.

 

The power of pretending at its finest

Fact is any competent referee would have stopped the fight after Bute got up. He had an empty look in his eyes like he had no ****ing clue where he was
You sir are full of ****
Danepugilist knows your full of ****
A leading Montreal Newspaper knows your full of ****
The comentators ringside know your full of ****
And the majority of posters on this site know your full of ****

Watch the fight it helps
When you do you'll notice Andrade very much in his corner. A million other refs wouldnt have had a problem where he was. A million other refs also wouldve stopped the fight when Bute was on his feet but clearly out of it
Again watch the fight afterwards feel free to be an ignorant mongoloid boxing fan, its your right to be stupid and it's also your right to pretend