Andrade: "I did not leave the neutral corner!"

I truly don't understand why this is still an issue. Bute got up he wins. The rest is irrelevant. Whether Andrade is in his corner or not(which he clearly isn't), or the count was long, or the ref should have made Bute step foward...Bute got up it's over! END OF DEBATE!

 

Yeah,pretty much but Andrade deserves a rematch for his effort.

 

It's an issue because many wanted Andrade to win. He got very close to doing so and his fans are disappointed he lost. It happens every time.

 

That, I do agree!:yep

 

That is true but the ref isn'y obligated to make him take a few steps,it's up to his objectivity.

 

Well this brings us back to the question of whether or not Bute had to show he was able to continue. The answer is obviously, no, he was not. However, the question is, do the rules state that he needs to be.

A.R. makes an argument that he need not be able to continue, however he does this by making his own interpretation of the rules, it is not clearly stated in the rules themselves.







5. Three (3) knockdowns in any one round do not automatically terminate the fight.

This content is protected

in the referee's judgment, which must be keen and decisive, the knockdowns have been indecisive and clearly have no injurious effect upon the boxer, the contest may continue but with good sense and judgment and the boxer's welfare always paramount.

6. The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor.

I think you could easily interpret this to mean that the contest cannot continue - in this case continuing would mean ending it, until the boxer beats the count and shows the ref he can continue.

Otherwise, he is simply being saved by the bell.

Part of beating the count is not only getting up, but also showing ability to continue. But then, the rules also stated the bell won't sound until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor, so you can interpret it that Bute did indeed rise and his hands cleared the floor, he was off the ropes for at least a half a second when he was standing.

But still, it says right there in the rules that the contest cannot continue until the ref thinks "the knockdowns have been indecisive and clearly have no injurious effect upon the boxer"

That is part of overcoming the knockdown, getting up and showing ability to continue. That is why the bell is not rung. He has to beat the count. Part of beating the count is showing ability to continue - its right there in the rules.

And think of THIS. The fight does not officially end until, meaning the bell doesn't sound, until the boxer "rises and his hands clear the floor" and obviously, from rule 5, until he is deemed able to continue which he clearly was not.

So, in effect, that bell should not have sounded until he beat the count, and according to rule 5, you got to be deemed able to continue to be able to beat the count.

The clock essentially is stopped, time is stopped, until the ref deems the fighter able to continue. So that bell cannot sound, the fight cannot end, the boxer cannot be saved by the bell, he has to show he is able to continue, for that bell to ring.

Otherwise, that is the very definition of being saved by the bell. The fact that he got up and didn't have to show ability to continue, that is clearly being saved by the bell.

Because, in the end of any other round, he would have had to have shown ability to continue. And the not being saved by the bell rule was put there to stop people escaping a knock down due to time ticking off. And that is exactly what happened here, he escaped due to time ticking off the clock, howerver, that time is FROZEN, until he beats the count, and nothing can CONTINUE, meaning the clock can't keep ticking, the bell cannot sound, until he finishes the protocol of overcoming a knock out, part of which is showing ability to continue.

Although I see the other side, I think you can make a strong argument for an Andrade victory, simply going by the rules.

 

You can make a good case for an Andrade victory, if this had been a 13 round fight. Bute would have beaten the count but the referee could have still decided that he was in no position to continue in the 13th round, so he would have stopped the fight.

This being a 12 round fight, there was nothing for Bute to continue after the end of the fight; he just had to beat the count, which he did.

I think I've typed that last phrase 20 times already, and still, in vain.

Also, being saved by the bell means something very different to what you take it to mean.

 

The fight though, does not end until the ref allows it to continue. The bell cannot ring until he meets the protocol of rule 5, overcoming a knockdown.
He doesn't overcome the knockdown until he shows ability to continue.

The fight was still ongoing while Bute was trying to beat the count, and part of beating the count is overcoming a knock down.

How can you not call that being saved by the bell, if the only time it could have possibly worked is in the twelfth and final round when something called the bell was allowed to ring, and which saved Bute from a loss in any other round??? Clearly, the bell saved him.

 

What plagerism?

 

So there is a difference to the interpretation of the rules, whether or not there are more rounds left?

Nonetheless, the ref should have stopped the fight prior to the KD. Bute was in no position to defend himself, and he was a KO waiting to happen.

The ref was crap, and should never be able to ref a fight again. The whole idea of a hometown ref for a title fight makes me want to womit. How could this happen?

Kessler and Andrade had a temp banned US ref for their fight(even if he did very greatly).

 

He only needed to overcome a knockdown to continue. (rule 5) To beat the count, he just needed to rise with his hands clear of the floor, before the referee had a chance to count him out. (rule 6).

The round is over, according to rule 6, the moment he rises with his hands clear of the floor. This having been the last round of the fight, there was nothing for him to continue doing after the end of the fight, so there was no need for him to "overcome a knockdown" and be deemed fit to continue. He just needed to get up. Clear as daylight on a clear summer's day. :good

 

It's because the Quebac Commission names the ref.This has been going on in America for years.The ref is ussually named from the same durestiction

 

No! Because the rule says you cannot be saved by the bell in ANY round. So, Bute would have had to beat the count after any round of the fight, whether the first or the last, in order not to have been declared knocked out.

To have been deemed capable of continuing the fight, which is something quite different, he had to do more than just beat the count; he had to convince the referee that he was capable of continuing, after beating the count.

So, if this KD had occured in round 11, say, Bute would have beaten the count but it's very unlikely the referee would have been convinced he could have continued for another round, round 12.

But this KD didn't occur in round 11, or 10, or 9 or whatever, but with two seconds to go of the final round. By the time Bute beat the count, the fight was over, so there was nothing for Bute to continue doing. Since there was nothing for him to continue doing, he didn't need to prove that he was able to continue. The only thing he needed to do was to not be deemed knocked out. He couldn't be saved by the bell, so even though he was on the floor at the end of he three minute period of the final round, he still had to get up before the referee could count him out, in order not to be deemed knocked out. He did so. He had risen with his hands clear of the floor (Rule 6), within eight seconds of the knockdown. The timekeeper, however, failed to obey Rule 6 and didn't ring the bell to signal the end of the fight at this very moment. This confused the referee into thinking there was still time a couple of seconds left of the three minute round, so he tried to satisfy himself that Bute was able to continue for those few extra couple of seconds, given his condition. He was satisfied and restarted the fight, even though, by then, the fight had been effectively over for a good couple of seconds.

The timekeeper made a big mistake that could have cost Bute the fight. If Bute, say, had beaten the count by rising with his hands clear of the floor, (at which precise moment the fight should have ended, because he also happened to beat the count, having risen within eight seconds of the knockdown, six seconds after the end of the three minute final round period) as he indeed did, only to then fall back down, for example, the referee would have declared him technically knocked out, even though he would have fallen down after the end of the fight, at which point it should have been irrelevant whether he was still up on his feet or not.

Alright, Jan(DK)?

 

Bute won officially and it's over now. Let them go their seperate ways already. I am sure Librado will get another shot with another champion one day.

 

It's you'r opinion he had no objectivity,again Bute didn't have to be deemed to continue,just beat the count.